looking for adminstrative ruling?

[Payne N. Daiz]

I was accused of glitching on Oil Fields by Grizzly for laying a mine under a bridge. As far as I know it's not a glitch. The area is completely accessible without any monkey business.

But, if you guys consider it out of bounds I'll stop doing it.

Thanks,

Payne

[Specialist]

Payne, I personally don't consider that a glitch. I will however, check with the other admins on this matter. You will have definite yes or no answer soon. For the time being, I would refrain from using that maneuver until it's use has been decided.

[MOJORyder]

wow, thats a tough call.... not an admin, but I wouldn't consider that a glitch per se...but certainly out of bounds of what I'd call fair play.

Mines were made visible for a reason, hiding them under objects the intended target has no chance to see certainly would not be considered to be the intended use of said object/weapon.

Kinda like a pilot who only rams his opposition or always bails out to deny a kill to his enemy..not a glitch or illegal, but low class no doubt.

[RickPetko]

I've seen this use of mines before in almost every level of BF. Clans have used it and everyone in between. I've never heard of anyone objecting to it. I have even used it myself. I have never thought of it as glitching, however Mojo's point of mines being seen is interesting. I thought that sometimes mines would not always be visible. I personally don't have an issue with this though.

Rick P.

[Grizzly]

First off, it's not like I went on a 5 min tirade about omgwtf you hacker, it didn't happen to me so I wasn't just pissed about being killed, we were on the same team. My initial text was in all chat (which I didn't mean) but I tend to just beat around on the keyboard like a drunk monkey until something happens. But I don't see how that is any different from the spandrel on Norfolk where you can be shot from it but have no idea it's there. There is a buffer, separation or whatever you want to call it between the mine and whatever would roll across it. I do know of other spots that are like that such as the cap radius at the tower on urban siege. If you would lay the mine on top of the bridge it doesn't become invisible, it stays on top of the bridge, if you throw a mine on a tank it stays on top of the tank. I've seen this before and I've used it before but there are quite a few other things I've seen SS of on here that imho would be ok but have been deemed glitching. I can live with it either way, a decent player always checks for mines with a wrench anyway.

Cheap as hell? yes.
Legal? guess so.

But there isn't a player here not guilty of something. :)

[mrpink]

My two cents worth... Doesn;t a warning of mines in the area show up on your map when in the proximity of mines??? It does on mine.. So if it warns how would that be a hidden item???

[LF55]

gppd point pink

[Payne N. Daiz]

I assumed, perhaps incorrectly, that Grizzly was a long time guest of this server and maybe he knew something about the rules here that I didn’t. Hence my original post.

I’ve been using the tactic…well, since forever and have never been called on it. It’s not like I figured it out myself either. Some clever SOB did it to me at some point and I adopted it. That’s how I’ve learned everything about this game.

Regardless of the admins ruling, the topic brings up a philosophical discussion of what’s fairplay.

If you follow MOJORyder’s logic there still wouldn’t be any slam-dunks allowed in basketball. I’m no basketball historian, but I do know that until the ABA league came around in the 70’s slam-dunks were frowned on in basketball. Maybe even illegal at some levels. But when the NBA realized how popular guys like Dr. J were with the fans…well the rest is history. As recently as the early 80’s where I grew up the dunk was a no-no. I think it might have even been illegal, can’t remember for sure. Didn’t really effect me since I’m a slow short white guy :) I remember the reason behind it though. It was considered poor sportsmanship to show up the other team with a dunk. Braggadocios. Bad Form.

I’ve rammed my share of tanks with a plane and won’t apologize for it. Usually don’t because normally it's a waste of resources, but if my team is desperately trying to hold onto that last flag, I’ll do what I can to help them out, including taking out a tank with a fighter. I’ve even taken tanks with the AC130. Now that’s really low and pisses people off. I’ve only tried it a couple of times on this server and died both times. Maybe the AC130 has been modded to prevent this? Don’t know.

Do you think the developers intended players to be able to jump off 2 and 3 story buildings and survive by sliding down a wall or going prone. I see people doing it every time I play. What about when you get blasted high enough in the air that you can deploy your shoot? Do you pull the cord or just fall to the ground and die? Etc. etc.

I’m not sure I know what you referring to on Eastings Grizzly. If it’s what I think it is, I would say that falls into another category. Mainly because someone can actively fire at and hit you and you can't respond in kind. It’s like a glitch, but not. Or is it? Best left to the admins on the server your playing on to determine. The mine tactic on the other hand just takes an alert mind and a wrench to foil.

You name the game/sport and you’ll find players using everything they can to get an edge. It’s the nature of competition. And to that end I’ll use any tactic I can that’s allowed on the server to get over on the other guy. It’s the way all competitive sports/activities are. The key is to know the rules and not go past them. Unfortunately some can’t help themselves from crossing over the line. And that’s why there are referees, umpires, judges…and server admins.

Anyway, that’s my .02. Happy Fraggin

[MOJORyder]

Again, I simply said I felt it was tasteles..or tactless... or perhaps low class. Not cheating, not a glitch. Using a basketball analogy is beyond me.. I am no fan of welfare ball to begin with, and can't speak of it's history...but as in all things, time changes everything.

I think, in your suggestion that sliding down a wall when you've stepped off a ledge (accidentally or otherwise) is kinda a misnomer in that.. with your mine thing.. you are trying to kill someone else in a sneaky manner.. in sliding down a wall, you are trying to not die.

Now, I don't think you will get a negative ruling on your mine thing.. like political correctness, you can't control bad taste.. and I think that's all this comes down to. Ones sense of "Fair Play".

[Lt.Dangle]

ok ok ok, im gonna decide on this. if u were under the bridge and put mines its not a glitch, i mean i put c4 next 2 a wall. and bmp was on the other side. n it blew up. so no glitch. if none or ur body was glitchin then i dont see wats the deal.

[Payne N. Daiz]

Again, I simply said I felt it was tasteles..or tactless... or perhaps low class. Not cheating, not a glitch. Using a basketball analogy is beyond me.. I am no fan of welfare ball to begin with, and can't speak of it's history...but as in all things, time changes everything.

I think, in your suggestion that sliding down a wall when you've stepped off a ledge (accidentally or otherwise) is kinda a misnomer in that.. with your mine thing.. you are trying to kill someone else in a sneaky manner.. in sliding down a wall, you are trying to not die.

Now, I don't think you will get a negative ruling on your mine thing.. like political correctness, you can't control bad taste.. and I think that's all this comes down to. Ones sense of "Fair Play".

Not trying to single you out but in your previous post, you kind of morphed the topic from what's legal to what's fair. I think the analogy holds, but I'm not married to it ;).

What about all the poor souls playing that don't know about sliding down walls? If you know about it and use it are you taking unfair advantage?

I'm not taking any of this personally. Just a discussion of whats "fair" You can split that hair a million ways.

[Babies_Happen]

Lol i skipped most of this thread, if someone could make a tl;dr version that would be great. Mines under bridges is ok, i dont do it but im all for it. In real life you dont see mines so what's wrong about a little reality in the game?

[Sledge]

My two cents.

Mines under the bridge is OK. You can go around the bridge through the water with minimal damage if you want to be extra careful. It is not a glitch no more than some types of players are able to swim under water. Why do you think some guys don't have back packs.

This attention to detail is one of the best things about DC. The developers were very cleaver. I'm still learning 5 years in.

[RoLnRoCk]

i'm okay with everything payne said in his post. i do it myself. not a glitch, just one of the little nuances of the game that you learn to take advantage of.

[Nightster]

I love AC130 ramming, if you clip a tank with the wing just right it will kill the tank barely hurt you and still allow you to roll back and keep flying. Ohh and if you hit the brakes and roll while a plane is following you the other plane will collide into you giving you the kill......Wait were talking about how that sort of thing is cheap and low...pfft in that case I take it back, I have never done that with the AC130. But hey even if the developers didn't mean to include it, it's the only thing that makes the AC130 a little more worth flying then just being a good team mate.

I think mr. pink made a good point, idk I have placed mines inside the sidewalk in Urban Siege many times eeek! I just consider it a well known fact to expect mines there, I never considered myself a glitcher for doing it, but I do hate people who glitch into unseen spots to make kills.

[fireWIRE]

What about hiding under water on Sea Rigs at the spill flag? hmmm....

[i_am_not_your_father]

I think it is a serious offense and those who use this cheap tactic should be punished especially since it was "I" who ran into that mine that night :)

In a serious note this is what happened: I was in a T2 heading to cap the south west flag (yup that flag that almost no one cares for). I saw Payne heading to our airfield in an M1 tank so we engaged and killed him/her (isn't Payne a girl? - ok it doesn't matter.) I then quickly moved to cap the flag before he/she respawns and plants mines on the bridge, logical, right? I told myself, there is no way he/she'd respawned that quickly, so as soon as my T2 touched the bridge, it went boom! I don't remember seeing the mine warning icon. I saw grizzly's comment right after that about the glitch but did not make any accusations or comments since I wasn't sure whether it is a hack or not.

I've played this game long enough and I should have known better. But for the sake of other players, admins should confirm that planted mines under bridges or concealed spaces don't/do show the warning mine sign and then make a ruling.

i_am_not_your_father

[fireWIRE]

I don't get it. Did your own team plant the mine? If not you won't get a mine warning regardless.

[i_am_not_your_father]

I don't get it. Did your own team plant the mine? If not you won't get a mine warning regardless.

Sorry if I wasn't clear. I was axis (red) Payne on allies (blue). I was heading to cap the south west flag (allies flag). Apparently Payne was the one who planted the mine under the bridge. Not sure what team was Grizzly on, I think blue.

I think you are right, you won't see a mine warning if the opposite team plants them but you will if your own team does. Anyway, no biggie... just thought I share what really transpired.

i_am_not_your_father

[Babies_Happen]

From my experiences the mine detection is worthless most of the time. And i hope to be able to get in some play time this week, ive been too busy with school and whatnot. and my ping constantly sucks now, stupid obama is taking up our bandwidth by spying on us...

[Specialist]

In regards to the question that Payne N. Daiz asked. The general consensus is that it's a legal tactic and will be allowed on the server.

[Payne N. Daiz]

Thanks

[Demonic]

some thing of a different nature...i have seen a few people lately pick up the 50 cal, and then jump into an Apache, or jet, with no intention of sniping.....they take it because its there...... it doesnt bother me at all, for the fact i am happy to snipe with all 3 guns...but for those who are more dedicated to sniping in the 'traditional' manner, i kinda feel its a little selfish to do that......just thought i would mention it.

(any chance of removing the VSS and giving both teams the 50 cal ?....hint hint )