Disruptive Admins

[{BuDs}Eightball]

This is regarding a kick of {BuDs} Spc. Frosty that occurred on 8/10/10 while playing Battle of the Bulge around 1:30 AM MDT.

While defending the back base, Frosty became agitated at the Apache pilot for not rendering help defending the base sooner. Stupidly, he fired a burst from his M249 at the friendly chopper as it sat on the pad. Then again as it flew away but was WAY out of range. No TK occurred. Admin told him to stop and he never fired at the chopper again.

Next thing we know, he's being kicked for disruptive play. Repeated query's to the admin as to how long he was out we're not answered and I was told to take it to the forum. Amidst the confusion, the admin also managed to incorrectly kick 002 {Voz Frontera}. According to the admin, he told Frosty to stop shooting five times and Frosty did not stop. This was not the case as I was above Frosty most of the time and could hear and see him shooting.

My questions are these;
1. How does one get to be an admin?
2. Why is it that TKers who are clearly playing disruptively, and sometimes on purpose, are kicked for one minute and a long time supporter who does one stupid action is kicked for the entire night?
3. Who is admining the admins? At what point does being a mother and reacting emotionally during a war simulation take the privilege of being an admin too far? This particular admin seems to spend more time policing than playing and letting the people play.

Now I know this is just a game but last night was the last straw. Planning to spend the night unwinding and then finding out you can't because of, in my opinion, an incorrect and much too harsh reaction really stinks. I appreciate the function admins provide but playing God shouldn't be one of them. Let's be fair and impartial so everyone can enjoy the game. Map selection last night was also interesting. We went from 33 people play Bulge to 20 playing a CTF version of Dustbowl. Seems something more suited for the masses would've been better.

I'm interested in thoughts and thanks for your time and the great server.

Eightball

[toolman]

Ok I'll bite..

To start off:

poor choice for thread title.

This is regarding a kick of {BuDs} Spc. Frosty that occurred on 8/10/10 while playing Battle of the Bulge around 1:30 AM MDT.

While I understand you are in a clan with this person does he not have the ability to speak for himself?? I will defend other admins and their decisions because I know them well...but I would not speak for them.

While defending the back base, Frosty became agitated at the Apache pilot for not rendering help defending the base sooner. Stupidly, he fired a burst from his M249 at the friendly chopper as it sat on the pad. Then again as it flew away but was WAY out of range. No TK occurred. Admin told him to stop and he never fired at the chopper again.

Next thing we know, he's being kicked for disruptive play. Repeated query's to the admin as to how long he was out we're not answered and I was told to take it to the forum. Amidst the confusion, the admin also managed to incorrectly kick 002 {Voz Frontera}. According to the admin, he told Frosty to stop shooting five times and Frosty did not stop. This was not the case as I was above Frosty most of the time and could hear and see him shooting.

So someone else was kicked because they were shooting friendly vehicles because they did not get enough help... and you decided that asking an admin why was worth while?? maybe I am missing something or there is more to it....should people who shoot friendly vehicles not be kicked??

My questions are these;
1. How does one get to be an admin?

2. Why is it that TKers who are clearly playing disruptively, and sometimes on purpose, are kicked for one minute and a long time supporter who does one stupid action is kicked for the entire night?

3. Who is admining the admins? At what point does being a mother and reacting emotionally during a war simulation take the privilege of being an admin too far? This particular admin seems to spend more time policing than playing and letting the people play.

Here are my best answers to your questions

1)You must give Swanny and Specialist a spongebath.

2)"regulars" always get a little stiffer treatment for couple reasons..they know better and get plenty of slack already for small infractions, they also do a fine job of policing when there are no admins therefore setting a good example for others..sometimes they become that example when they mess up. I also respond quickly and decisively when one of these regulars tells me about disruptive players...we can't be everywhere and can't listen to everyone so I count on them to help me.

3)See #1 for senior admins but I can tell you that they have also played mother in situations. Letting the flow of gameplay not be affected by our actions is our first rule. We are also human and therefore act off emotions often..good or bad. I know I regretted not being more firm on a few situations because I thought I would be over-reacting because I was pissed. Nature of the beast. Also realize that sometimes you are walking into a shitstorm of a admin maybe because he just spent the last 2 hours only getting 30 mins of "quiet normal gameplay" because he is an admin.

Now I know this is just a game but last night was the last straw. Planning to spend the night unwinding and then finding out you can't because of, in my opinion, an incorrect and much too harsh reaction really stinks. I appreciate the function admins provide but playing God shouldn't be one of them. Let's be fair and impartial so everyone can enjoy the game. Map selection last night was also interesting. We went from 33 people play Bulge to 20 playing a CTF version of Dustbowl. Seems something more suited for the masses would've been better.

I'm interested in thoughts and thanks for your time and the great server.

Eightball

Please don't let this single incident turn you off. I know you in game and never had any issues with you that I recall. You have always been a fine opponent and vital ally from my memory and teamwork can be hard to find some days. This game is not going to get more popular and that is a fact. I know that me personally have played quite few different maps in the last few months..some of them were horrible choices and one sent the server into total relapse and would only play THAT map over and over...We are trying to keep the gameplay somewhat fresh and still let the players dictate the quality. We are also sometimes "tweaking" the rotation and in map mods to help decent maps play more balanced based on our rules and number of players. If you don't try maps you don't know how they play. There a few maps that are great CTF maps...others are not..a few could be...it's all personal opinion to an extent. The number of players does not always mean a map sucks...not everyone has DC final believe it or not.

If you have an opinion about map selection please speak up in game...you might not always win but your voice will heard and counted. But being an admin does have it's perks and I have no problem just setting the next map I want to play without asking anyone.

In conclusion I would like to say that I appreciate that you did not get personal with that admin...to the point his name is not mentioned thus far. I know his side of the story because we actually do communicate as admins about many things so that we can all attempt to work with the same common template when enforcing rules and promoting fun gameplay.

I will also add that very often a admin is making decisions based on what he has seen..but not always. Questioning that decision from a 2nd party (especially since you have clan tag) will almost always not be taken positively by that or any other admin in game. I know I have a VERY short lease for those that start "ganging" up on another admin. IN GAME because their buddy was kicked for being disruptive. Shut up.. drop it... or move on and come back later. I will only give that warning once and then you get days off. We get many clans that rush the server because theirs is down or something..that's fine..80% of them come in, play great and never are noticed except they all have a tag. We also have days where a clan group will come in and start going ape shit all over, camp mains, tk, chat spam, and make the game suck for about 1/2 hour or more while 1 or few admins try to run them off.

This is good server because we ban idiots..sometimes that idiot is someones little brothers friend who was trying it out for the first time...sometimes not. I have kicked more than a few players by accident, and have also banned a couple by accident. If you come back to bitch about it (unless it was an accident I openly admit) then you can bet a dollar to a dime that I will not want to discuss it in game any further and have no personal issues with you..but will send you packing "long time fast" for disrupting gameplay any further.

Hope this was not to long and I made my unbiased opinion clear. :ugeek:

[Swanny-CG]

I agree with everything toolman said. I would go further to say that once he was banned, he came back in with another CD key? Extremely disrespectful, kind of a "fuck you, I don't care what you say." Unacceptable.

Firing at a teammate because he's not playing the way YOU want him to play? Ridiculous. On top of that, the player is an admin? That's asking for trouble. Then asking WHY he was shown the door? My mind is blown.

People need to remember that this a pub server. We stay pretty well occupied. I don't know where clan servers are anymore but if playing with people that haven't trained as a cohesive unit is too frustrating, perhaps players would be better served by sticking closer to home.

As toolman said, where is Frosty in all this? Does he need some sort of public representation? Does he not speak English (i.e. does he need someone to translate for him)?

[{BuDs}Eightball]

Seriously? "Where is Frosty in all this?" Come on. I'm not speaking for him, I'm merely speaking about him. Which is why I'm not going to defend any of his actions. I was just looking for some insight as to why what happened the other night went down the way it did.

I think Toolman answered my questions completely and satisfactorily so thank you for your response. Do Swanny and Specialist prefer a loofah or sponge? The {BuDs} aren't a real clan, we're just a group of friends that decided to identify ourselves together. We've always played on public servers and EA 117 has always been the best. It's too bad that Desert Combat participation isn't stronger, and you're right, it's not going to grow. We appreciate being able to play on this server.

Can someone tell me how long Frosty is banned for so we can plan our next outing?

Thanks for all you do with and for this server. I'm sure I'll be playing with you both soon.

[Swanny-CG]

Quite frankly, and will all due respect, Frosty needs to speak for himself. The ban has no time limit. It was only going to be for a short time until he immediately rejoined the server with a new key multiple times.

Really, it's up to the banning admin. I suspect an apology to him from Frosty would go a long way towards patching things up. Not so much for doing something stupid in-game but the disregard for the admin that followed. He basically tried to roll over on the admin in public, but I don't know that a PM would be out of the question.

I don't know what he wants, I'm only answering for myself.

You're obviously an intelligent guy and I appreciate your respectful discussion so far. It's possible that it's not worth it for Frosty to worry about; that's up to him.

Either way I'm out, this is between Frosty and the admin.

Swanny

[OffTheHook]

WTF? I don't get a sponge bath? Krist, I'm the old fart with a young kid and a cranky pregnant wife. If anyone needs a relaxing sponge bath, it's me. So who's up first? If you really want to suck up, I like those little bath beads, especially the purple ones. And I prefer bath oils, not bubble bath.

[{BuDs}Eightball]

Wow.

I began this post because I saw some behavior from an admin that I thought was excessive. I only say that because similar behavior from an inebriated {BuDs} hasn't met with such a harsh response. I would've had the same questions had the same situation happened to another player. Except I would not have been paying attention, because it wouldn't have affected me, and I wouldn't know their side of the story, so I would not have given a crap.

During the game in question, my inquires to the admin were why was Frosty banned and how long the ban was for. I can't speak for Shootin Tex, but I think the quotes in the preceding post sum up his queries. I'm wondering why suddenly we seem to be skating on thin ice. What exactly does "As for Eightball and Shootin' Tex; if I have any more problems with the two of you, you're done also." mean? Am I on some sort of probation for speaking my mind?

Look, all the {BuDs} are just a bunch of kids and their Dads looking to spend some time on the computer together doing something fun. Yes, stupid moves happen. I've TKed a few players in my day for being a dumb ass and TKing me. But it never got me a perma ban. Seems to me we have a pretty good group of regulars and we shouldn't do anything drastic to rock the boat. Can we really afford to kick a player for life because they acted like a moron? Seriously, what lesson are we trying to teach an adult by kicking them out of a FPS game they play for relaxation because they acted in a manner they probably want to occasionally do in their daily work environment? Let's face it, we all have our reasons for playing and stress relief is my primary one. At what point do we start to take this too serious and personally?

I do respect the admin's responsibility to maintain an environment of fairness. I also take seriously any player's attitude that disrespects that role. I suppose you could say Frosty did that but it was 1:30 AM and beer was involved. In the long run, does that deserve a perma ban? That's not a statement of defense, as I mentioned I'm not defending his actions, but merely looking for some continuity in administration.

As I stated previously, this post was designed to gain me some insights to the administrators and their thought processes. Asked and answered. Now I seem to be on the bubble with a certain admin and that makes me uncomfortable. I'm sorry it's come to that and apologize for any actions that have put me in this position. I hope other admins don't feel the same way as I enjoy being able to play on this server and hope to do so for a very long time. I can only hope my fellow {BuDs} Frosty can make amends with the admin in question and rejoin us with a heightened sense of respect. But that's not my battle.

And thanks for reminding me about the door. It's just that there aren't a lot of other doors to walk through. So I think I'll hang here for as long as permitted.

Sorry Hook, I was not aware of your need for a sponge bath as well. Excuse my ignorance. Would that be loofah or sponge for you?

Respectfully,

Eightball

[toolman]

Eightball I want to again thank you for your respectful demeanor in your posts. I know I have gained a little more respect for you, (not that I ever thought low of you) and will take things you have written into account when playing the game.

Hopefully you have a better understanding of what we as admins TRY to do to maintain order, and learned that some things will not be tolerated..especially when it comes to disregard for authority.

I know that I have thought that other admins. have reacted too harshly before...and even had a couple of them tell me after I issued a ban that they were just going to kick/warn someone....but in all of those instances the ENTIRE story was not known by the 3rd party.

See ya on the battlefield...and bring your dads and sons with ya.

[Sarge 1/68th Armor]

Holy Shit,
I was killing time while burning some movies and came on this. WOW...Good shit going on here boy.
Now I have some questions:
1. How does one get on the sponge bath list?
2. Toolman was excellent in his postive response. How can I have your child?
3. OTH are you sure it's bath oils and not Epson salt?
4. If I do qualify for a sponge bath can I pick the person, I don't want Nightstalker, he's kinda funny
5. AIDS can you change you M. O. S. with your line officer to J. A. G.?

Sarge out...

[Nightstalker]

I have never been so happy with one of your post as I am with # 4

[Sarge 1/68th Armor]

Ya made me laugh on that one..lol

[Nightstalker]

[grantroberts]

i strafed carier last night and got kikd ive been playing here a long time i know beter , ive seen admins do it but oh well thanks for not banning me col ,secret is dont kill the admin lol , thanks killroy