F-15 Magic

[Hav3n]

I've been on a couple of times when really, really, really good pilots get on. I get shot down. I'm not good enough to go up against most of the better pilots out there. I can hold my own against all the other mediocre pilots. Even get lucky sometimes.

That said, I've been on a couple of times with Do A Barrel Roll and he is exceptionally good. I initially chalked this up to his being like most of the other amazeballs pilots out there. They simply know how to fly and have mastered the moves/loops/turns to kill predictable flyers like me.

However, I started noticing that his F-15 seemed capable of stuff that I simply have not seen before. Sharper turns I think, much, much faster than I seem to be able to get the F-15 to go. I feel like for my turning, he is getting about 1.5x as much turning quickness.

Anyways, I am wondering, do you guys know if certain people have hardware or something that taps into the sensitivity of the controls? I use keyboard to fly and I have my sensitivity maxed out (I believe) and still cannot get anywhere close to duplicating what he is doing.

Like I said, I get killed a lot by better pilots. But usually they're simply better in their technique (which he of course is as well), and not faster/sharper/quicker (which he also seems to be as well)...although I don't rule out that it might just be excessively superior technique. He seems to come from above a lot and so perhaps there is a simple tactic of using altitude to get speed and more extreme turning? I don't know that I've ever seen anybody else employ whatever it is he is doing so lethally.

Thoughts? Barrel roll, I welcome your input as well. Although if there is a "trade secret" I doubt you'll share it, but please do.

[hoppin bob]

Good luck haven. I have brought this up in another thread. He is listed on the forum as raptor. He may respond. Brink sent me a couple videos of him flying. I can send them to you if you want. I don't care about it anymore. Brink and heather sauce both got banned for basically playing the exact same way he does, yet he is still welcome in the server. I simply find something else to do when he comes in the server. Sometimes I will stick around but usually I will log off. I don't care to play when 1 guy goes 61-0 in a jet or some other crazy score on infantry maps. I work alot. I'm about half way through a 40 day straight work schedule. With the wife and kids, I don't get a lot of time to play. I play to relax, blow off some steam, and have a little fun. It feels less fun and very frustrating when he comes in the server. I just go play some WoT or one of the other games I enjoy. Like I said in the other thread. I'm not advocating a ban. That's the business of the powers that be. I will just leave when he comes on.

[Hav3n]

Interesting to hear that. Is it just that he is so good that it ruins the game for you?

I'm curious about opinions of how he flies the way he does. With keyboard, I've noticed that my technique needs some work since you can get a sharper turn if you ease off the throttle, or not use the rudder much if at all, etc...I just don't know what he is doing possibly beyond that to give him a substantial "technical/mechanical" advantage on top of his obvious prowess for dogfighting.

I'm not accusing Do a Barrel Roll of anything other than flying so well I'm interested to learn what others think and if anyone knows how he does what he does.

It seems borderline insane and so I wonder if he is exploiting something. In which case I'd like to bring that up, or if he is doing everything by the book, I want to learn what it is he is doing. I typically am able to evade most flyers and get into the circling dance of death at least for a few loops around each other. If Barrel Roll misses me on his first "screaming death from above and behind" pass, I do not even make a full turn before he has already turned around completely, lined up and shot me down. Every time.

[Nightstalker]

He posted those videos on here a long time ago. And best I remember he was willing to help people learn.

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=974&start=25#p8908

Is he cheating or just good??? Hell I don't know.

[hoppin bob]

Hey James, I've been pretty well for the most part. Just busy with school and work.
Hope you and your family are doing okay.

I'd be glad to give you some pointers next time I'm able to get on. However, I can give you a view pointers and give you some links to some videos that may help you as well.
I appreciate the compliment. You are a good pilot but it's hard for me to remember exactly how you flew or what you could work on specifically to improve.

There are two biggies when it comes to flying; one obvious and the other not so much.

Switching views is HUGE and the biggest part to being able to do well in the air. From what I remember you seem to be using your views. The biggest thing is to learn how to switch between Fly By and Chase Front in-order to always keep a bead on your opponent. When you dogfight you need to make it your goal to try and ALWAYS keep them in your views. Once you are able to do that then you will notice an improvement to you maneuvering as well.

The second biggest thing is ENERGY. You have got to maintain energy when you're flying. Have you ever made a move that got a closer to the enemy but noticed your speed decreased and thus lead to your opponent getting away? That's the biggest thing. You don't always want to get on your opponents tail when you think the opportunity arises. Make sure if you make the move you'll have enough energy to stay in pursuit or evade in-case you miss.

That was just a brief overview of what I focus on when flying. Also, take shots in the outer camera views as well. You'll be surprised how many more opportunities and how much better your judgement can be when doing that.

You mentioned Heathersauce and Barrel in your post on the forums. Well to put it simple...I played competitively against the best players/clan (us three were in the same clan actually) to ever play this game in its prime and I think, hands down, Heather and Barrel Roll are easily the best pilots in terms of dogfighting. Those two have flown nonstop for years, against each other, myself and other great pilots. Don't get discouraged because they are THAT good.
I know ping may seem like a factor but it is really not that big a difference when it comes to flying/maneuvering. You'll only see a difference in how much you need to lead your shots.

With that here are some links from some of the best dogfighting/pilot links I could find. There are some really amazing shots in these videos. Just try to keep an eye on their views and energy.

Here is Barrel dogfighting some other top pilots:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u37X5_F1eMg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDMcB24eaUo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Briv5fq ... ure=relmfu

This one is not as good:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAyUSkp0LtM

Here is a video all about awareness when flying:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RH0weKtXhHE

Hope these help! If you have anymore questions I'd be glad to help.
Also, next time I'm on I'll try to get unbanned and make a flying video for ya.

Peace


Here is a pm that brink sent me.

I don't know if the video links will work. If they don't, I will get some help from someo e on the forum when I get home tonight. I'm posting this from my phone.

[Hav3n]

Great stuff. Yeah, as I suspected might be the case, he has vastly superior technique.

Looks like I need to work on my camera skills (seems like he is changing stuff beyond the usual 4 views - like resetting some views without changing camera to keep the perspective relevant) and keeping my "energy" up. Also, his superimposed map on his screen is interesting. Gives him a lead on seeing targets before he can actually see them. Good stuff. *high five barrel roll* *punch barrel roll in the face*



Was on El Alamein last night and he was destroying anything that left the ground from red, went 14:1 and then went AFK. Blue had been holding the whole map I think and bleeding Red. Once he went AFK, Blue never recovered and Red went on to easily win the map.

One pilot can own certain maps. It is a rather conspicuous skill.

[hoppin bob]

As I said in the other thread. I think he's just a very good DC pilot. That changes nothing as far as it being boring as hell to be owned by him every time he's on. I don't really have the time to put into practicing to try and reach his level. Life is just to busy. If I have a chance to sit down and play, that's what i want to do. Hence my previous post stating my choice to log off. Not trying to be a poor sport or anything. I just lose interest when he's on. I prefer to fly. When barrel is on, he either kills most of the targets if he's on your team , or destroys you on the first turn. IMHO, if he can play here , than heather sauce and brink shoul be let back in. ( unless of course the admins caught either of them cheating).

[Nightstalker]

I like when he is on because you good pilots know how it feels when us poor pilots try to fly.

As for the Brink and Heathersauce issue Bob... your beating a dead horse.

[hoppin bob]

NS, where's the logic behind that? If heather and brink were hacking or playing suspiciously, then barrel is guilty of the very same things. They all played the same way. Just sayin.

[Nightstalker]

Believe me when I say, we have had many talks with them especially Brink. They know why and both parties have come to an understanding. Some things we had to agree to disagree on but what's done is done.

I never flew against Brink nor Sauce, so I can not comment on that. I DO know Barrel Roll is insanely "good" in a plane.


Regardless I am curious as to what side you are on. You say Barrel is on the same level as Brink and Sauce. You also said if Barrel can play, so should Brink and Sauce yet Barrel makes you quit the game. Do you want 3 people causing you to quit? I am not trying to put you on the spot,just trying to get you to understand none of these bans go without much thought and deliberation. It sucks either way. None were banned on a whim.

[Hav3n]

Woah. What were they banned for? (my curiousity is peaked)

Were they getting kills that were out of sight and they wouldn't explain how or something?

[hoppin bob]

My thought process is this, barrel is the only player at his level currently playing on the server. When he is on, he dominates. If you were to allow brink and heather back in ( that's even If they were interested in playing DC anymore) then at least there's two people who could give him a run for his money. The way it sits now, no one can seem to match his skill level. He comes on anyway. I don't see how it would be different for me playing against barrel or heather or brink. I dont automatically leave as soon as he gets on. But there is noone to stop him. It just gets old sometimes. So sometimes I log off. I doubt I'm the only one.

I realize that I'm an ok pilot, and I have probably frustrated some people from time to time but there are plenty of people like Haven for instance, that shoot me down regularly. I can't say that about barrel roll. Even SC can't compete with this guy. And SC is a badass compared to me, even with his 1103 ping I'm not trying to convince you to let those other two back in. Nor am I saying to ban barrel. I was just trying to see the logic behind their ban. Yet allowing someone who plays the exact same way in. Life will go on either way my friend. You guys are the ones who have to make the tough calls.

I do see your point stu. If the other two come back , then were dealing with these uber skill guys a lot more often than the few times barrel pops in.

Sorry to be a whiny bitch. I learned it all from rye

[ryeontherocks]

so what are you saying bob??? that i am a whiner eh??? how did i get into this conversation??

I agree with this thread and often though about this Do a barrel roll has a skill set that i will never reach unless i do nothing but fly jets and he stops for a while...

Conversely i have the same problem with helos i love to dog fight and i want to get on blow off some steam and forget about someone that pissed me off at work.(my schedule is more like 80-90 hour work weeks)..but believe it or not in a helo i back off dramatically when there is no one to fight with ...there used to be great helo pilots everywhere and in another server there is still some great guys popping on now and again but its not the same ...i am in favor of having balance with in the game...ie: full powered lil birds are effective for me against jets but tuned down ones as well as Apaches are as useless as bob,(sry i had too).. might as well shake your fist in the air...unfortunately, just asking him to back off after a while is all you can do...i still would rather get owned by someone whom is really good then to play with guys that have no skill.

and sometimes on bocage i can take my revenge on bob...just because he whines like rye

[zanshin1]

well well welll......lmao.......heres a thought, been barking fer years to have it......turn the "cheat camera" off and see how great someone is.

I flew the helo for years without using view changes....

Thats why i was never a fan of jets......to much dizziness and boring circles.

personally when I fly, i will drop in front of you and face you man to man.......alot of "great" pilots, like to git in ur butt........lmao, kinda gay.

I forgit who it was but, we were playin on a map and he actually would fly his jet face to face with me and that was fun....

If your actually a good pilot YOU should NOT want to jump on someones "6" to get the kill......

It was coined as "swooping" and frowned on.

Not saying that you dont do it when a game matters, for them to just play on el ala......etc. shows weakness...lol.

if your really that good...play all maps......use all weapons....try funny stuff etc.

When I get bocage....ill sit in front of red main,,,,,you cant miss me, im not hiding.....lets shoot it out!!!

Let all players play,,,,,,if you cant handle good ones, look at yourself, and find a way to beat them....

Sheeesh....banned for being good?

ok then,

[ryeontherocks]

YES Zanshin well said thats why us die hard helo pilots love DA good ole Apache....we have had more than a few eye to eye fights and its satisfying.... i am learning new stuff in this game all the time on ground, tanks etc aswell...gotta admit this is one hell of a game to keep me occupied for soo many years

[Nightstalker]

Zanshin, its funny you say that about the "cheat" camera as you called it. I turned it off one day for a VERY brief amount of time. It took less time that it does for you to blink before people started saying WTF HAPPENED TO THE CAMERA VIEWS. Of course I was cracking up. I would honestly love to turn it off for a while. Make it a true FPS. If there are enough people on that want to do that, I say lets go for it. Unfortunately most of the people that are going to be ok with it do not use the extra views in the first place

[zanshin1]

LOL night......but it is. people can use tht over head view to see around the corner and through walls...etc.

like i said.....it makes me dizzy to toggle views......so i dont use it, but then again im not concerned about my score.....

I want to know if this can be done......I know someone said they do it and to me its a bit "cheaty".......

But they run dual vid cards and have the alt view on another monitor.......really? you need that much of an advantage.....

Anyone know about tht?

ty

[Nightstalker]

I do not know about that dual video card thing.

I will say, I would not call anyone a cheat for using any of the buttons that are factory programmed into the game from the very start.

I know you are a helo pilot. Have you ever "magically" jumped from position 1 to 2 to do some drop gunning? You have .... cheater

To me "cheating" is when you are using stuff that was missed or never fixed by the developers such as the use of mortars to sink in certain floors, or some boxes that you can get in and shoot out but not been seen nor hurt by enemy fire.

And of course hacking but that goes without saying.

[JagdTurkey]

I was going 1v1 with do a barrel roll last night. When I didn't use the second cameras I wouldn't last the first turn but using them I could confuse him for at least a few turns. We tried some stunts like simulating flag capture while doing the loop. An example of the standard loop http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjoxC45tUFE . The amount of control over the aircraft that he has is amazing and after talking with him I learned that it's basically the only thing he does. He also clearly uses his radar to its full potential. I have no problem with this and I personally believe he is extremely skilled. Skilled in the same way a lot of helo pilots are. I asked if he had any piloting background and he said no. As a pilot myself this makes me curious as to where he got so skilled.
May the cats be with you.

[zanshin1]

"Have you ever "magically" jumped from position 1 to 2 to do some drop gunning? You have .... cheater"

NEVER!!!!.......lmmfao.

ok, ok,
If you turn off the views, you can lock out the 1-2 seat switch on helo.

[Hav3n]

Do a Barrel Roll is a l33t pilot.

Indeed, as JagdTurjey put it, may the cats be with you.

[Nightstalker]

LOL, I have flown against him a time or two. I normally stay in the "rearview" cam. It helps me know when I am about to die. I am not big on surprises ya know.

It is amazing how, no matter what the move or how random you are, it seems impossible to shake him.

I consider it a win if I can stay alive for 15 seconds while knowing he is on my tail.

[Demonic]

taking out the other camera views might be fun if anything, it will reduce them pain in the ass C4 campers ( they be worserer than snipers )

i dont use the other views to see whos behind me, coz i know i wont last long enough to change them back regardless who is after me lol ( i suck as a pilot ) doesnt mean the Dem wont still get in a plane and try

i mentioned before about having the best of the best come onto this server, seeing how other servers have faded away......... sooo its kinda tough dealing with uber skilled pilots dishing out the punishment...i guess all we can do is watch and learn (unless they ARE doing something naughty )

[fluffy]

damn haxors.....

[Hav3n]

LOL, I have flown against him a time or two. I normally stay in the "rearview" cam. It helps me know when I am about to die. I am not big on surprises ya know.

It is amazing how, no matter what the move or how random you are, it seems impossible to shake him.

I consider it a win if I can stay alive for 15 seconds while knowing he is on my tail.

Haha. I am not alone.