Turn off Teamkilling

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fromage
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Turn off Teamkilling

Post by fromage »

Why is that feature even on? I suspect if you turned it off, you'd have the vast majority of your admin work and residual follow-up cut in half, allowing you and others to just enjoy the game. The two opposing teams can then focus on each other.

Other servers do this and it works very well. If you have to have TKs, some servers will go so far as to kill off the offending player before it harms the other person. Why not just turn it off altogether?

It's rather ridiculous just having it on. This would avoid the intentional and unintinentional TKs.

Discuss.
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Re: Turn off Teamkilling

Post by Nightstalker »

Ridiculous you say. This "ridiculous" feature has been on forever, but you are just now having a problem with it????
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Re: Turn off Teamkilling

Post by Sarge 1/68th Armor »

Never turn it off. Look at all the Tk'ing goes on just to get a plane. The new member can go else where, I think the sever should auto ban as well.
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Re: Turn off Teamkilling

Post by fromage »

Nightstalker wrote:Ridiculous you say. This "ridiculous" feature has been on forever, but you are just now having a problem with it????
Nighty - sometimes we get too comfortable in our routine and don't question the "why-we-do-the-things-we-do" or "Why are the rules or settings the way they are?", etc.

In light of all of the TK threads and animosity it creates, you didn't explain your reasoning as to why we shouldn't turn off TKs so people can focus on the game. I'm actually pointing out a benefit that would just prevent people from TKing. Just because it's been on forever doesn't make it better or worse.

Or, in a beer analogy: Just cuz you're too lazy to chill the beer doesn't mean it's ok to continue drinking it warm because the fridge is too far and you're too tired to get into your Turbo 3000 Mobility Scooter and navigate through the maze of dirty clothes and doritos bags, on the way to the kitchen. It aint cheese or wine. The longer you let it sit, it aint gonna get better by itself. ;)

Happy New Year! :D
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Re: Turn off Teamkilling

Post by Nightstalker »

Wrong, ***beer comprehension alert*** some beer ages just as well as wine.

The peoe that get banned for TK'ing are due to excessive or intentional TK's. Friendly fire brings a realism to the game. That IMHO is the #1 reason to leave it on.
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Re: Turn off Teamkilling

Post by Hav3n »

It has pros and cons.

Con:
Intentional and unintentional TKs. A major issue at times. Typically, we all roll with it and type "ftk" a heckuva lot into the console. It would be nice to not worry about it. However...

Pro:
Limits teams from abusing a no friendly fire setting by just raining down missiles or grenades on a flag while their own team mate is there. The team mate ought to die, just like in real life, you wouldn't call a missile strike while a teammate is wandering around the target area. Many a flag has remained grey because the capturing soldier died from a teammate's aggressiveness in killing a piece of armor or other infantry.

My thoughts at least. It seems a 50/50 proposition perhaps, but might lean more one way than the other depending on server conditions.

I sort of think our server benefits from friendly fire being on more than it would from it off. A lot of flag capturing would be a completely different dynamic. A death match server? Yes, turn it off. EA117? Not so sure.

However, if it was turned off, I could roll with that too. I can see some benefit there.
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Re: Turn off Teamkilling

Post by zanshin1 »

I agree teamkilling on has pors/cons.

Its the concern over it that is the problem........

If you turn it off,,,,,i can spray the flag (im going to use alnas in points.)......while my teamate goes to grab flag.....hurting those that try to stop him as far as gameplay......in this case you need it on (or something else)......just dont bitch if you go into cross fire,,,,which is the majority of the problem.....Ive never once cared if i got tked.....the problem lies in those that care so much....

Shit happens.....

Now some servers have that if I shoot a teammate I start to lose my health......now that may solve a bunch of problems....IMO

It would still be somewhat fair cuz I would die instead of the guy going for the flag,,,,,but stop the firing at you, so you can kill the guy who grabs the flag....

basically a trade off...

Or you can get everyone, Fluffys setup and skill.....then bitch away..Lol.

everyone should know the difference between malicous Tk and non......

Tk off does have its benifits as far as alot of fun killing goes tho.......Unload everything and the kitchen sink.......fun as hell but some dont think so...(prob cuz they cant give it, they always be gittin it...lol)

I think its fun to try and get out when your pinned down anyways,,,,,,,sure you end up with 30 deaths to your 3 kills....but then again,,,,,,,SO what!...lol

turn it off on some maps.....and the tags too......try something new :D :D

happy new year all!
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Re: Turn off Teamkilling

Post by ryeontherocks »

it does profoundly change the game, i was used to team kill off for many of years like zanshin and commin here it was a big adjustment....spray and prey was the way of the west with team kill off but with it on you are a little vulnerable in the essences you have to select...mind you in some maps my own team kills me more than opposition team does....it was a selection that defines the server and it will be hard for some to change....i can get used to anything you guys decide in this aspect....the thing that bothers me more is the c4 hoes or the sniper hoes....but that's a whole other thread on another channel...
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Re: Turn off Teamkilling

Post by Swanny-CG »

Historically, there are always trolls and jackasses that take advantage of being able to profoundly disrupt their own team with no automatic consequences.

Right now, TKs eventually handle themselves. Turning it off means every single thing needs to be observed, analyzed and moderated.
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Re: Turn off Teamkilling

Post by fromage »

Fair points. Counterpoint is that in reality, most people are just careless. Some apologize and move on (or argue and distract from the game), some don't care while others are pissed and some do it intentionally.

While TK's eventually handle themselves, it incorporates a more flawed human approach reviewing and takes more of the admins time to get involved and review. SInce you guys don't get paid and seem annoyed when having to deal with TK threads, it seems you would be "incentivized" by reducing the "eventuallity" factor and mitigating most of the in-game fallout by tweaking the settings. Less work for you and more time for the game.

Food for thought: As a test, it doesn't necessarily have to be completely turned off. Some servers have reduced damage on the victim, while it kills off the offending party first (almost forcing them to be more careful because now they see a direct personal impact). Whereas the current system seems to make the offender almost nonchalant and careless, who will likely continue playing the same way.
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Re: Turn off Teamkilling

Post by Hav3n »

That would be interesting if you couldn't be hurt by teammates, but they inherit any damage they do to you as a teammate. 100%.

Could make people think twice before lobbing grenades.
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Re: Turn off Teamkilling

Post by Nightstalker »

I like that idea, for the most part. And I am not trying to be devils advocate, but I think the reason I like FF on, is for the realism it brings. Most of us, do try to keep accidental and naturally the intentional TK's. So my one counter on that would be on maps such as a CTF. With FF off, I would lob grenades as fast as I could to help someone cap a flag. Knowing I would not make forward progress, but their journey to the flag should be much easier with 3 explosions surrounding the objective flag and not having a care in the world where my teammate is. Get a few others to do that and the flag is yours. If I do that with FF on, completely different story, teammates dead, he/she spawns further back and now the front runner is me pissed off I just killed my teammate. Which , IMHO is the way it should be. I even like FF on when it comes to TDM maps. :23:
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Re: Turn off Teamkilling

Post by fromage »

Any possibility of testing this out? Not fully off, just the proposed hybrid.
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Re: Turn off Teamkilling

Post by bRiNK »

For this server, I think FF should remain on. I recognize 90% of the names in the server when viewing the players list meaning that most people who still play a mod for a 10 year old game know how to avoid TKing.

Removing FF would drop the intentional/unintentional TKs, but we would then see people dropping grenades/C4 at their feet and bombing/nading flags with friendlies are in the area more often than we were seeing TKs - in my opinion.

But I completely disagree with Nightstalker when seeking realism in a video game. Most things that make this game so enjoyable, replayable and balanced would certainly be impossible and impractical in real-life war scenarios. Capturing a base in 12 seconds, two shots to the head for a kill, shooting a SMAW while running, placing/arming a landmine in .5 seconds....you get my drift. Realism does not equal fun and I think that is important to understand when deciding what rules and settings should be established.

However, I think what is more appropriate to argue is that there should be some strategy accompanied by caution when going after an objective. You should not be rewarded for strafing a flag with an A-10 while friendlies are in the area of attack similar to how you should not be rewarded for thoughtless running into typically high-risk gun fight and dropping c4 at your feet to win the encounter.

So I think the pros of FF being enabled beat out the cons simply because it helps balance the game when players have some fundamental understanding of the game. Compare this to Origin servers with FF off....a lot of the players are new and don't understand how to avoid TKs.
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Re: Turn off Teamkilling

Post by Nightstalker »

bRiNK wrote:...

But I completely disagree with Nightstalker when seeking realism in a video game. Most things that make this game so enjoyable, replayable and balanced would certainly be impossible and impractical in real-life war scenarios. Capturing a base in 12 seconds, two shots to the head for a kill, shooting a SMAW while running, placing/arming a landmine in .5 seconds, ROUTINELY GETTING SHOTGUN KILLS AT 100 YARDS, AND/OR CONSISTENTLY "ONESHOT'ING" PEOPLE IN THE HEAD WITH A SNIPER RIFLE IN CQB SITUATIONS ....you get my drift. Realism does not equal fun and I think that is important to understand when deciding what rules and settings should be established.
.

Fixed it for ya so we will get your drift. LOLOL Sorry, I couldn't help myself. :P Of course FF being off would not be realistic. :28:
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Re: Turn off Teamkilling

Post by Sarge 1/68th Armor »

Keep the realism. Friendly fire is a no no. That's what keeps it real here. On BF3, especially on the urban scenario's it gets so loud and crazy with every light machine gun, laying and spraying while your troops run right through it is ludicrous. Nothing gets accomplished. After a couple of maps I come right back to DC where its a bit more real. Even though I hate the C4 throwers (do that in a live situation). Its for stationary targets. Get rid of it. I say keep it as true to life as possible, then you have to think it like a unit, watch for friendlies and deployment of troops together and win.
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Re: Turn off Teamkilling

Post by Demonic »

Its just a PC game, so yeah, its going to have all kinds of unrealistic features....the Arma series is more a FFPs sim, than the battlefield games.

If it gets to realistic, then there would be no more of the following :






muhahahahahahahaha !!!!!
BROTHERS IN ARMS
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Re: Turn off Teamkilling

Post by Nightstalker »

Dem, I am going to get to shoot one of those next time I got to Knoxville. We know a guy who ordered the M82CQ (the one in the video). He currently has the M99 (single shot) which I hope to shoot also as it is more accurate than the CQ version for obvious reasons. I will try to get some pics and report back.
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Re: Turn off Teamkilling

Post by Swanny-CG »

fromage wrote:Fair points. Counterpoint is that in reality, most people are just careless. Some apologize and move on (or argue and distract from the game), some don't care while others are pissed and some do it intentionally.
What we're after is the intentional ones, mostly. Although if someone does it too many times "accidentally," then they, too, need to be shown the door.
fromage wrote:While TK's eventually handle themselves, it incorporates a more flawed human approach reviewing and takes more of the admins time to get involved and review. SInce you guys don't get paid and seem annoyed when having to deal with TK threads, it seems you would be "incentivized" by reducing the "eventuallity" factor and mitigating most of the in-game fallout by tweaking the settings. Less work for you and more time for the game.
Again, you have it backwards.We review far LESS when the TKs are handled automatically. Too many TKs in one round, get the boot. Too many boots, an automatic ban (which can be reviewed here). If we turn it off, like I said, everything needs to be mediated. I don't know where you get the "you ... seem annoyed" bit but I don't believe that is an accurate statement/assessment.
fromage wrote:Food for thought: As a test, it doesn't necessarily have to be completely turned off. Some servers have reduced damage on the victim, while it kills off the offending party first (almost forcing them to be more careful because now they see a direct personal impact). Whereas the current system seems to make the offender almost nonchalant and careless, who will likely continue playing the same way.
Actually turning on offender damage just opens a new way to troll. We tried it back in the day and it was a blowfish so we turned it back off. Sorry I don't remember specific examples, it was years ago.

Love the new ideas and approach to keeping things fresh or solving perceived issues on the server, but in my mind, this one is a non-starter.
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Re: Turn off Teamkilling

Post by Hav3n »

Actually turning on offender damage just opens a new way to troll.
Was this for situations where someone lays mines and so a teammate maliciously could run them over to damage or kill the person that laid them?
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Re: Turn off Teamkilling

Post by Swanny-CG »

Basically, similar to running out in front of someone firing so they suffer a TK. Same story, different application.
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Re: Turn off Teamkilling

Post by Hav3n »

Ah. Yes, that too. I see. Yeah, whole 'nother can of worms.

Cheese (or Fromage, as the French call you), as your counselor in this legal matter, I suggest you withdraw your motion for the time being. Perhaps resubmit after Swanny retires from the bench. We'll work hard to get CP a seat at the table and slowly begin our takeover of the server. At which time we will change all the rules we've always wanted to change, only to find out that they've probably got them set up pretty well as is.

:)
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Re: Turn off Teamkilling

Post by zanshin1 »

"Most things that make this game so enjoyable, replayable and balanced would certainly be impossible and impractical in real-life war scenarios. Capturing a base in 12 seconds, two shots to the head for a kill, shooting a SMAW while"

You Said It Brink!!!!!

Thats the beauty of it!!!!!!........Fun Fun Fun till someone takes the C4 awwwaayyy....ooo...ooo...:):)

Although I think 2 shots to the head equals a kill in real life.....lol..
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Re: Turn off Teamkilling

Post by bRiNK »

:31:
I knew i set myself up for that one NS lol
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Re: Turn off Teamkilling

Post by fluffy »

i like to lick newborn kittens...
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