Father & Admin-ing

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Hav3n
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Father & Admin-ing

Post by Hav3n »

Was on Desert Shield...some red arty is hitting our blue team. I say, "I got this" and take off in F16. I knew it was probably coming from red main. So I fly over, line up, and boom, easy peasy, take out dude in red arty truck.

Father shoots me down immediately in Mig. Pretty run of the mill scenario. Then he says over chat "Stay away from red main"

I respond, "I was attacking arty firing out"

Then he says, "Blue held all 3 flags, stay away"

I keep asking for clarification because this would be a new rule as far as I know. He does not respond to clarify this assertion at any point, and then reverts to "It was a warning, drop it"

"A warning against what rule?"

Again he says something incoherent about attacking red main or something...nothing memorable because he kept dodging the OBVIOUS fact I was attacking someone firing out of red main, which is expressly allowed in the hallowed locked rule thread.

I'm not cool with admins issuing warnings for made up rules and then I'm wondering if I still play within the rules as written, I end up getting booted for doing something to piss them off for "disregarding" their warning or something. Plus my pride you know... :)

Would love to open this can of worms because this is red meat and I don't want it to go bad and spoil the next potential run in with Father without some context. Once an admin starts doing this, I don't really know where it will go...especially given my history with no warning bans.
Last edited by Hav3n on December 16th, 2014, 8:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Father & Poor Admin Skillz

Post by i_am_not_your_father »

... I knew it was probably coming from red main.


When you say "probably" that tells me that you were not 100% certain where or who was firing. When in doubt and when there isn't a well defined target (e.g. SA3), it is safer to stay the hell out of enemy base. I caught you almost vertically diving into our main base attacking our vehicles so I gave you a "verbal warning" and then you got your panties in a wad typing in CAPS demanding an explanation. What else do you want from me? I can't type and fly at the same time! My play time lately is limited so back off. You are lucky I did not ban you cause you were getting in my nerves. It is time to learn how to swallow your pride while in this server or else you better go find yourself another (good luck with that).
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Re: Father & Poor Admin Skillz

Post by Hav3n »

Let me take you to school.
When you say "probably" that tells me that you were not 100% certain where or who was firing. When in doubt and when there isn't a well defined target (e.g. SA3), it is safer to stay the hell out of enemy base.
I knew that it was likely coming from red main. Are we to not investigate the most likely location of red artillery firing on our positions? Are you seriously arguing this?
I caught you almost vertically diving into our main
You mean, playing the game?
base attacking our vehicles
Correction. Vehicle. Singular. Artillery truck I was seeking out.
so I gave you a "verbal warning" and then you got your panties in a wad typing in CAPS demanding an explanation. What else do you want from me?
I want you to clarify the rules if they're broken, and when they aren't, as in this case, you swallow your pride and realize you made a mistake warning a player for something that isn't against the rules. Or making up rules like "blue held all 3 flags" as if that means I can't attack a unit firing out of red main, especially artillery.
I can't type and fly at the same time! My play time lately is limited so back off.
The administrators here ask this of players, that we leave personal issues at the door when we play. Do the same as an admin and simply be an objective arbiter of server rules.
You are lucky I did not ban you cause you were getting in my nerves. It is time to learn how to swallow your pride while in this server or else you better go find yourself another (good luck with that).
I understand getting called out for making a mistake sucks, but such is the life of an admin. Threatening bans to people that catch you abusing your admin authority is not impressive to anyone I know playing here.

I would leave this alone, but to not address it leaves the door open to use it as some sort of justification the next time I do something questionable in your mind. I've found that I'm basically at the point where I need to "lawyer" up and get stuff clarified or else everything in this thread would just get hashed out long after it is old and cold and doesn't sound very convincing.

So yes, I'm sort of looking for an admission you goofed here.
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Re: Father & Poor Admin Skillz

Post by SuperTesla »

Sounds like Hav3n did nothing wrong, from what I've read from both of you guys. Now, if he was shooting at other vehicles other than the red Arty truck, that would be a problem.
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Re: Father & Poor Admin Skillz

Post by i_am_not_your_father »

When you have all three flags and your team pounds our main base exit making it nearly impossible to leave, base camping violations will be closely monitored. Bottom line: you attacked our main base without YOU being shot at and without having 100% certainty where or who was firing. And for the record, artillery "trucks" do not spawn in red's main base in this map. Next time, it will not be a warning but a ban. This is my last post to you.
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Re: Father & Poor Admin Skillz

Post by Sarge 1/68th Armor »

Why not simply not attack mains? What makes this map different?
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Re: Father & Poor Admin Skillz

Post by Hav3n »

i_am_not_your_father wrote:When you have all three flags and your team pounds our main base exit making it nearly impossible to leave, base camping violations will be closely monitored.
I attacked 1 vehicle on my first pass. It was the only target I shot at, and the only vehicle or location to take damage. Stop making stuff up and embellishing. You are borderline lying. I am not joking.
i_am_not_your_father wrote:Bottom line: you attacked our main base without YOU being shot at and without having 100% certainty where or who was firing.
I attacked a vehicle that had been firing out of red main. I don't have to be the one taking damage from it to kill it. I knew the artillery was firing. This is Desert Combat teamwork 101 to take out units like arty trucks, SCUD, or MLRS from inside enemy uncap mains.

Why are you even pursuing this line of argument?
i_am_not_your_father wrote:And for the record, artillery "trucks" do not spawn in red's main base in this map.
I will definitely be checking this claim. I cannot imagine what vehicle I blew up if it wasn't the arty truck. Wasn't scud and wasn't a tin can or bmp or t72.
i_am_not_your_father wrote:Next time, it will not be a warning but a ban. This is my last post to you.
This is exactly why I am addressing this because in game you became very uncommunicative and belligerent once I clarified your error. You were not just busy flying, you exhibited the same tone in game as you are here, defensive, fabricating rules and threatening further action instead of simply enforcing the rules as they're understood by everybody and as they're written here on the forum.

Now you have doubled down and threaten instant no warning ban should I misstep.

Are any other admins reading this thread? I'd like this addressed.
Last edited by Hav3n on December 8th, 2014, 1:15 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Father & Poor Admin Skillz

Post by Hav3n »

Sarge 1/68th Armor wrote:Why not simply not attack mains? What makes this map different?
http://www.ea117dcfanfavorites.com/view ... ?f=62&t=38
There are three exceptions to this rule:
1--Return fire is allowed to any player firing from a main such as the SA-3, MLRS, SCUD etc.
2--Car bombs (honking the horn sets off the bomb)
3--Snipers, who are firing sniper rifles
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Re: Father & Poor Admin Skillz

Post by Sarge 1/68th Armor »

I know the rules that's why I'm never on here complaining, bone head. I was on that night. Red main was getting attacked repeatedly by Blue. Several times Blue had been inside the Red main and using the Scud, APC and Helos to attack. I was killed several times after spawning by a APC. Blue was even warned about straffing Red main. I even ask what the hell is going on and that it seemed it was a free for all, damn the rules. To me if looked like this map was a no holds bar whamy if a map. Cheese actually odered all personel to attack me, lol. Because i questioned the rules.

Certain players just can't let things slide. I have been killed countless times by my own team for planes or killed by assholes not following the rules. I can only request them to stop. If they don't I then I PM a admin abouf it. They usually get a email notification immediately. Then I post a thread. Problem solved. I have been with EA 117 for a lifetime (10 +yrs).Never have I been banned, kicked or reprimanded. I read the same rules. WTF?

And Nightstalker will always be a fag. Its just the way it is.

Mod Omaha, isolate the beachhead and make knives only. Send the whiners there for a week! :23:
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Re: Father & Poor Admin Skillz

Post by Hav3n »

I have been killed countless times by my own team for planes or killed by assholes not following the rules. I can only request them to stop. If they don't I then I PM a admin abouf it. They usually get a email notification immediately. Then I post a thread. Problem solved.
Fascinating. So you escalate it up to the attention and arbitration of admins?

My particular issue was actually with an admin in game who was either not allowing known server rules (attacking units firing out of uncap main), or conflating my actions with those of others. Upon clarification (requesting him to stop doing this by telling him I was simply operating within one of the 3 known exceptions) he became defensive, cited some made up "3 flag conquest rule" and threatened bans.

I took it to the board here to solve the problem and he doubled down with being defensive and threatening more banning.

:?
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Re: Father & Poor Admin Skillz

Post by zanshin1 »

Hey can we get rid of the stinger on berlin......seems like overkill.....replace with c4.

TY
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Re: Father & Poor Admin Skillz

Post by ButtBreathSenior »

Can you guys hang on a bit? I need to fix a sandwich and turn off Jerry Springer....



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Re: Father & Poor Admin Skillz

Post by Hav3n »

Hav3n wrote:
i_am_not_your_father wrote:And for the record, artillery "trucks" do not spawn in red's main base in this map.
I will definitely be checking this claim. I cannot imagine what vehicle I blew up if it wasn't the arty truck. Wasn't scud and wasn't a tin can or bmp or t72.
Taken tonight:
http://www.imagebam.com/image/376132370706525
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Re: Father & Poor Admin Skillz

Post by ButtBreathSenior »

DING DING DING.....and round One goes to..........


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Re: Father & Poor Admin Skillz

Post by i_am_not_your_father »

Hav3n wrote:
Hav3n wrote:
i_am_not_your_father wrote:And for the record, artillery "trucks" do not spawn in red's main base in this map.
I will definitely be checking this claim. I cannot imagine what vehicle I blew up if it wasn't the arty truck. Wasn't scud and wasn't a tin can or bmp or t72.
Taken tonight:
http://www.imagebam.com/image/376132370706525
Ok I lied. I said that it would be my last post - so let's get this cleared out once and for all. Apparently, there is some misunderstanding from my part about what you meant when you said artillery "truck". By artillery "trucks" I thought you meant the pickup "trucks" that have machines guns or recoilless rifles mounted on them. Those do not spawn in red main base. In the 10+ years of playing this game, I've always known the opposition rocket launcher as the BM-21 or BM for short but not as an artillery "truck". Either way, when I caught you attacking our main base you were not shooting neither the BM nor the scud. You were shooting at a BMP-2 in our main as it was exiting. Besides, according to server logs,

12/6/2014 19:20:55 : # [Allies] Sarge: damn take out the mlrs
12/6/2014 19:21:15 : # [Allies] HaV3n<CP*SF>: i'll get it

The MLRS doesnt spawn in "RED MAIN BASE".
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Re: Father & Poor Admin Skillz

Post by Sarge 1/68th Armor »

Lol. I knew you had one more in ya. Also, that was the other Sarge. I always list my Regiment and Battalion. I to wondered what a arty truck was but then realized I didn't care. :?

Take care Daddy.
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Re: Father & Poor Admin Skillz

Post by Hav3n »

i_am_not_your_father wrote:
Ok I lied. I said that it would be my last post - so let's get this cleared out once and for all. Apparently, there is some misunderstanding from my part about what you meant when you said artillery "truck". By artillery "trucks" I thought you meant the pickup "trucks" that have machines guns or recoilless rifles mounted on them. Those do not spawn in red main base. In the 10+ years of playing this game, I've always known the opposition rocket launcher as the BM-21 or BM for short but not as an artillery "truck". Either way, when I caught you attacking our main base you were not shooting neither the BM nor the scud. You were shooting at a BMP-2 in our main as it was exiting. Besides, according to server logs,

12/6/2014 19:20:55 : # [Allies] Sarge: damn take out the mlrs
12/6/2014 19:21:15 : # [Allies] HaV3n<CP*SF>: i'll get it

The MLRS doesnt spawn in "RED MAIN BASE".
I'll admit, "arty truck" could be ambiguous. I don't have the BM-21 name on the top of my head so sorry for the confusion.

And just as I don't have all the vehicle designations memorized, apparently neither does Sarge. As you can see from those 2 lines, he refers to a Coalition/blue vehicle that obviously doesn't belong to red, and I confirm and say I will get it, also knowing the MLRS is the cubic artillery vehicle only blue has. Yet I know exactly what he is referring to, and I have what proves to be a very accurate assumption of where it will be. We both know what we're talking about even though we don't say, "BM-21."

This is perhaps similar to saying, "They have stingers," when red is shooting grails at blue aircraft.
i_am_not_your_father wrote:Either way, when I caught you attacking our main base you were not shooting neither the BM nor the scud. You were shooting at a BMP-2 in our main as it was exiting.
Again, I must correct you because I wasn't shooting at a BMP. I was shooting at a stationary vehicle that looked like the BM-21, not the BMP. The log will possibly show whoever I killed immediately before you shot me down as whoever may have gotten some kills from the BM-21 in the minute(s) before that. I don't think the log records anything but the killing vehicle/weapon and I don't know if that guy had gotten any kills, but if he did, that would further bear out the course of events.

You're either confusing me with someone else (hard to do as there was only 1 F16) or you've lost your edge, because this is yet another claim that is incorrect.

I don't expect admins to be perfect, but since you and others aren't willing to even discuss "infractions" and have stated a no warning ban inclination, you better well damn be perfect. Otherwise, you shouldn't be an admin.
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Re: Father & Poor Admin Skillz

Post by Sarge 1/68th Armor »

Thread LOCKED due to nobody caring about my boo boo owie.
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Re: Father & Poor Admin Skillz

Post by zanshin1 »

So does this mean there wont be stingers in Berlin?
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Re: Father & Poor Admin Skillz

Post by i_am_not_your_father »

Sarge 1/68th Armor wrote:Thread LOCKED due to nobody caring about my boo boo owie.
I do care you hairy brute :o :18:
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Re: Father & Poor Admin Skillz

Post by Hav3n »

12/6/2014 19:20:55 : # [Allies] Sarge: damn take out the mlrs
12/6/2014 19:21:15 : # [Allies] HaV3n<CP*SF>: i'll get it
Seeing as how the logs were accessed and checked in an attempt to confirm the admin's recollection, any chance logs would be checked or made available to confirm I shot person firing BM-21?

I'm glad to do the legwork. Just copy the log for December 6 (or just that hour...whatever) and paste into notepad. Attach it to a PM to me. Would be very simple.

I'd like to definitively clear my name now that I've brought it up and to the forum for such a purpose.
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Re: Father & Poor Admin Skillz

Post by i_am_not_your_father »

Hav3n wrote: Seeing as how the logs were accessed and checked in an attempt to confirm the admin's recollection, any chance logs would be checked or made available to confirm I shot person firing BM-21?
.
Checking with other admins.
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Re: Father & Poor Admin Skillz

Post by Hav3n »

I should add, I regret the title of this thread. I put it in in haste and when I posted forgot it was still the title. Should have changed it but didn't. For what its worth.
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Re: Father & Poor Admin Skillz

Post by i_am_not_your_father »

Hav3n wrote:
12/6/2014 19:20:55 : # [Allies] Sarge: damn take out the mlrs
12/6/2014 19:21:15 : # [Allies] HaV3n<CP*SF>: i'll get it
Seeing as how the logs were accessed and checked in an attempt to confirm the admin's recollection, any chance logs would be checked or made available to confirm I shot person firing BM-21?
.
The logs above are "chat logs" grabbed from Remote Manager. I personally checked the "chat logs" for that day and there is no chat to confirm you shot anyone firing BM or any other artillery for that matter. I have no way to retrieve any additional (non-chat) logs so don't ask me.

Some more interesting logs for your amusement....
12/6/2014 19:13:45 : # [Allies] HaV3n<CP*SF>: if you can hit the target, by all means fire
12/6/2014 19:13:49 : # [Allies] HaV3n<CP*SF>: HOLD THE FUCKING ARTY
12/6/2014 19:13:58 : # [Global] RedEyed: lol go flag
12/6/2014 19:13:58 : # [Allies] HaV3n<CP*SF>: wtf is wrng with u?
12/6/2014 19:14:11 : # [Global] Reaper: who
12/6/2014 19:14:45 : # [Global] lolololololol: !!!
12/6/2014 19:14:45 : # [Global] RedEyed: wtf haven?
12/6/2014 19:14:45 : # [Axis] Sarge 1/68th Armor: ftk
12/6/2014 19:15:22 : # [Global] Patches: lol
12/6/2014 19:15:45 : # [Allies] HaV3n<CP*SF>: who just almost destroyed bradley in middle?
12/6/2014 19:15:52 : # [Global] HaV3n<CP*SF>: why is mental retardation follow me from team to t
12/6/2014 19:15:55 : # [Global] JagdTurkey<CP-SF>: wktk dont pull that shit again
12/6/2014 19:15:58 : # [Global] HaV3n<CP*SF>: lol
12/6/2014 19:16:01 : # [Global] lolololololol: hahahah
12/6/2014 19:16:04 : # [Global] [BOP] Duracell: its a game
12/6/2014 19:16:04 : # [Global] Kiloton_phreak: magic
12/6/2014 19:16:11 : # [Global] HaV3n<CP*SF>: full of retards apparently
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Re: Father & Admin-ing

Post by Hav3n »

If you want to talk about my tone and language in game, start a new thread. It's an issue I'm open to discussing. This one is about you and a very specific incident.

Typically I don't chat about my kills, but in this case, I did chat about it because you issued a warning to me. Why not post the entirety of the chat exchange during the incident in question? Or better yet, just copy the logs you're reviewing and shoot me a copy.

Does Swanny or someone have access to more detailed logs showing player kills and so forth?
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