Player -flea- Cheating

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Ninja2014
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Player -flea- Cheating

Post by Ninja2014 »

Ok, so I've seen previous old posts where people have complained about -flea- cheating and I see he/she had been banned before. He/she was just unbanned recently however I have noticed that he/she appears out of nowhere and kills with such speed.

1. I shot him/her point blank with saiga and he/she knifes me in return. I died...he lived. He/she even stated he didn't know why he/she didn't die.
2. I go back to same location (1.) and enter building searching all rooms and on way back down he/she magically appears and knifes me to death. He/she stated "you walked over me", supposedly he/she was laying on the ground and I walked over him/her. There's no way I would have missed someone laying down and walk right over them to end up getting knifed!
3. While flying over in helo pretty high, I fire 4 rockets down to his/her M1 tank (not moving). Before the 1st rocket even hit he/she starts to move. All 4 rockets miss.
4. I'm in a T-72 tank and sneak around to his/her previous location in an M-1. I fire first trying to aim for the weak spot (ass end of tank), he/she fires second and I died first. He/she states "I aimed at your tracks" and that I was aiming at the front of his/her M-1 tank. Lies!!!!!
4. I was upstairs next to stairswell in a building and magically he/she appears in front of me and knifes me to death.

I know I complain alot (due to MD5 kicks)...SORRY! But I know when I see someone cheating vs being a very skilled player such as Fluffy, Default, Dad, etc. Player -flea- reminds me of DABR! If anyone else has anything to add, please post your topics! Thanks!
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fromage
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Re: Player -flea- Cheating

Post by fromage »

I have noticed nearly identical patterns between flea, dabr and brink. From gameplay to the way he talks down to people when the issue is raised. We were asked to post by admins, so here's another one for the forums.
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Re: Player -flea- Cheating

Post by sgt stokes »

I have to agree with Fro on this. Numerous times he just pops up out of no where and kills with very accurate precision. I am sorry but no one is that good. I have shot him with a 50 cal sniper, with him sitting still and he didnt die. I am pretty damn good with a 50 and pk, Fromage can attest to that, but this is rediculous. So you can add my name to this pile. :mrgreen:
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Re: Player -flea- Cheating

Post by IrishLincoln »

Well, I guess I will chime in here. I've played this game since the week it was released and I have been admin for a couple servers in the past, so I've been there. I know a cheater when I see one and flea is that guy.

I don't know this person who plays as -flea-, could care less who he/she is, and I have nothing against them.
However, I think it is time for admins to step up and hear everyone out, then do something about it. This isn't about a player being good, this is about a player being a cheater.

The tell-tale sign of an aimbot or auto-targeting cheat is what we used to call elbow lock. The guy can step around a corner, belly flop, be bunny hopping, jump out of a vehicle, off a roof and BAM! head shot every time.
it looks like the character locks up and fires, which he does because that is what the cheat does. Just google Aimbot and watch youtube videos and you can see other cheats show how their glorious cheat works.
I do believe in all my years that this is a cheater, not a good player, not a high pinger, not a guy with a super awesome computer his Daddy bought him. It's just simple. He cheats.

I'm just asking the admins to hear anyone out, even if it is during game play because not everyone visits these forums. Take note, even if in-game chat drives you crazy you have a responsibility to run your server and run it clean. However, if EA117 wants to ignore cheaters and allow them to use whatever hacks, mods, or cheats they want, then please let all players on EA117 know so we can stop complaining about it. If this is not the case, then ban the cheaters. They can find other servers to get their big scores so they can feel special in the world. Keep 117 clean.
flea
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Re: Player -flea- Cheating

Post by flea »

You all like to witch hunt around here. I've been told that my style of play may not be welcome here even though I don't hack cheat simply to keep the community from crying. I will tone it down a notch or two for the admin request, but it's clear you all aren't able to adjust to competition. If you all truly believe what you wrote here then I feel bad for your poor judgement having played a game since release. You should be much further along in terms of skill. It's just seems those at the bottom of the scoreboards that do the most crying even though I think Ninja is pretty good in infantry so it surprises me that he would think this. I would love to see your POV in all these accusations though from all these seemingly impossible things I do. You make it sound like I teleport, invincible, aim-bot, map hack but you don't think too far if that's the case and see all the mistakes in my play which would show the inconsistencies in your theory. I wouldn't be dying 60+ times a round. But I'm sure even if I post my recorded rounds you will just say its something you can't see my hack or I turned them off for the round because you refuse to think someone playing a game for 12 years could be good. You will never be happy. Cheese wonders how I can headshot him multiple times but I when I kill him and he will come right back to the same spot and run in a straight line doing the same exact things. You don't learn from the mistakes you make. Almost everyone in the server plays without their head in EA. Lying down, not strafing, predictable patterns, no stealth or mind games. You can expect to be shot down in 3-4 bullets if you are running in a straight line or lying down but people would rather cry than learn or change. You say I appear out of nowhere but your guns are loud and I watch the kill log to try to help see where people kill/die and most people are pretty predictable here. Everyone wants to call me a cheater without maybe trying the things I do to kill them. Nobody in EA dolphin dives besides fluffy and sometimes qhost or ninja. It's like you expect to get better without trying.
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Re: Player -flea- Cheating

Post by zanshin1 »

" doing the same exact things. You don't learn from the mistakes you make. Almost everyone in the server plays without their head in EA."


Thats y I play........:)

Take a picture of your rig/gaming station.....for me, my desk....

I have shitty wireless kb/mouse that if i move it move then 3 inches from the sensor my kb...... well buttons dont always work...lol.....but since you stated the above.....I feel no need for new shit on an old game....

Im always wondering about how people can switch weapons so consistantly etc.


I dont accuse, Im actuallly curious about setups and what others have/use and their configuration....

Tyvm.
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Demonic
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Re: Player -flea- Cheating

Post by Demonic »

dun, dun duuuhhhh !!!!

i am going to try and NOT weight in on either side of this debate, coz ive been in fleas position before and know how it feels to have fingers be pointed at you....not just by regs here, but an admin or 2.

since ive moved away from playing DC full time, when i have dropped by here, i have noticed that most everyone here still plays exactly the same way....which is fine coz its all about having fun, right ?!

aimbot seems to be mentioned the most here.........in my limited understanding of how it works, is it not meant to give you a 1 shot, 1 kill EVERY single time ?!
i have played against both flea and brink, and although i get my ass kicked, they have also missed shots on me.....and no, im not defending either of them (they are old enough to do that lol ) im simply stating the facts that i know of.....

i posted a video on here some time ago, on how to no scope (without using shit on your screen like ive heard people do)........ it was to help people see what can be done, but to point out that a players name above their head in game, can help you get a cleaner shot......

is it fair to play against players who constantly dominate and over power a server?! probably not....
is it fair to accuse people of hacking WITHOUT honestly saying, i know everything there is to know about this game ?! probably not....

is it right to have some regs in this community complain about others, breaking server rules/being disruptive and yet they them self have done it at times ?! no.......but it happens and will continue to.

the DC community is slowly fading away, which sucks for those die hard fans of the game....but any more, i am seeing more lines of ethic being encountered, to try and keep things balanced.
6 years ago, you could have banned a player like brink or flea and not thought twice....plenty of people still played DC back then.....

i hope this gets sorted out the right way.
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zanshin1
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Re: Player -flea- Cheating

Post by zanshin1 »

no tk, get rid of name tags, and get rid of alt view (you want to see behind u.....turn around)...

now, let the game begin........:)
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Re: Player -flea- Cheating

Post by fromage »

Flea - now I'm insulted. I occasionally do the robot, the macarena and some salsa dancing on my way.

Kidding aside, it's your shot connects at distance with my non-linear maneuvering that make you suspect. I hold my own a fair bit against you. The fact that you claim me (and practically everyone here) running straight at you all of the time is pretty funny. Hardly do I move that way and if I do and I'm just feeling lazy, that's fine. Your l33t skills can take that point. IL sums it up nicely though in terms of what we all notice. I certainly don't mind a good game and don't mind giving credit where it's due, but like I said the other day, there are far more consistent instances of oddball shots at great distance that make it super sketchy.
flea
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Re: Player -flea- Cheating

Post by flea »

I don't think anything I say or do will change the way you think. Unfortunately you all are very wrong in what you think to be true and but I'll make a suggestion. I can record my future games or show you past recorded games even those where you call me hacker, cheater, etc. I can go to a private server and help show you, record or give tips, but I don't know if any of that will be good enough for you. I am open to most anything to prove its not hacking or cheating. You want to believe "nobody can be that good" instead of learning, thinking objectively, or watching. Even if I did do recording will you say first person view still not good enough...that you can't see the hacking running, he turned it off, etc? I hope it would be apparent the behaviors displayed would be consistent with any other time I play considering some of you have played since release and have experience in finding cheaters. I am offering to prove it's not hacking or cheating. Will you all do nothing but accuse and criticize or will you present an offer of what you want to see yourself? Perhaps some evidence from you all about whatever it is you're experiencing? I am willing to show and prove, but are you? Show me I'm wrong that I don't think you guys are willing to be open minded about this make an offer of what you want see. What more can I do?
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Trench
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Re: Player -flea- Cheating

Post by Trench »

Irish, CheeseMunster, all: fyi there is a discussion thread going on in the admin side too; just don't yet have a consensus to report back yet. Just so you know it's not being entirely ignored.

-Trench
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Re: Player -flea- Cheating

Post by Hav3n »

I've been bested by flea many a time, and I've gotten him a couple of times. I've seen some crazy accurate shooting, but nothing I couldn't ascribe to luck or just being good. But that is just my experience, I haven't had him pop up behind me in a room that I had just cleared, if that has in fact happened.

Goodness knows I've gotten some shots in that are ridiculous and I can't attribute it to anything other than being pretty damn good at strafing and shooting with the shotguns, especially coming around blind corners where its a whiplash move and I simply time the shot correctly to blow someone away in a single shot. Or even semi-long single shot kills with the Saiga.

I'd have to see more to be convinced flea is cheating but I simply don't know anything about cheating. Yes, I feel like flea is a bit of a jerk sometimes, but so am I sometimes.* I can honestly say I have never even researched how to cheat with this game. I disrupt in more traditional and convention ways.

*all the time for some of you :)
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Trench
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Re: Player -flea- Cheating

Post by Trench »

flea wrote:I've been told that my style of play may not be welcome here even though I don't hack cheat simply to keep the community from crying. I will tone it down a notch or two for the admin request, but it's clear you all aren't able to adjust to competition.
flea,

No admin here has requested that you change your style of play, unless you're saying that you're not actually flea. But regardless of where that characterization came from, we are willing to take you up on your offer to change your gameplay as a possible solution to the current player community concerns.

Let me say it now before the rest becomes too long / didn't read: If your gameplay continues to raise community concerns or admin concerns as it does right now -- regarding improbable consistency and accuracy of long distance shots, and/or continues to just "steamroll" the server with scores well beyond the next closest player -- we will choose to enact a ban and invite you to play elsewhere.

Since you are willing to modify your play, we hope that will be the solution to everyone's concerns. If that actually happens and remains true, there's no reason we can't all enjoy playing on EA117 together.

The style of play you've been demonstrating thus far certainly evokes the same concerns that ultimately concluded in a ban for both "DABR" and "bRiNK" previously "for the health of the EA117 player community." Not withstanding that such decisions are and must be subjective at this point, given that anti-cheat software such as PunkBuster can no longer help further inform our opinion on this particular matter.

At this point in time with Battlefield 1942, if someone's skill and tactics show behavior and consistency too similar to what would also be seen by someone who is using software to cheat, it no longer really matters whether the player in question is truly cheating or not. Because the reaction and impact on the player community is still the same regardless, and to tolerate one will be the same as tolerating the other.

This is how any decision must made now, because its no longer a matter of telling the community "just hold on for a couple months, because although they'll get away with it for now if they're cheating, once Evenbalance becomes aware of the issue PunkBuster will be updated to recognize it." Only taking administrative action, subjective as it might be, will keep the EA117 a fun place to play for the majority of the regulars and visitors who come here.

And while this subjectivity includes an inherent risk of "wrongly convicting" someone, the fact that EA117 "hasn't gotten there" except in the cases of DABR and bRiNK we think speaks to the legitimacy of both the player community concerns and the admin decisions. Undoubtedly accusations do also fly on occasion (both joking and non-joking) when Ninja or Default or Demonic, etc., go on a tear. But none of those have risen to the level shown in the two cases we ultimately chose to act on.

We are definitely here trying to make a full server as fun as possible, and will have to make some subjective decisions along the way. So if a player's skill (or lack of it, since this also applies to players who choose to cheat) consistently raises these kinds of questions from a broad base of players & is considered a legitimate concern by the admins too, we will invite that player to play on some other server with like-minded players and skill sets, rather than running over the EA117 player population.

As you can see, the question we're trying to answer is not "Could it be possible that someone can perform that well in this game without cheating?" Undoubtedly with enough focus and practice, people can. Nor is anyone proposing "Someone who is cheating would be invincible, and would never die or get shot in the back." Nor are the player community's concerns "A plea to be schooled in why our own playing styles are so ineffective."

The question is only "Is the behavior being demonstrated essentially indistinguishable from someone who is cheating." Because if we would ban someone who is cheating, "how it looks" is exactly all we can go by these days when making that determination, unless the player just happens to also be naïve enough to not adequately conceal their cheating.

-Trench
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Re: Player -flea- Cheating

Post by ButtBreathOriginal »

Trench,
I only have two words for you. THANK YOU.


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fromage
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Re: Player -flea- Cheating

Post by fromage »

Well stated, Trench. Thank you
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Re: Player -flea- Cheating

Post by flea »

I don't completely agree but I can definitely comply with the request. You PMd me stating my style may not be welcomed and I may have to play elsewhere (lets be honest, there is no where else) if the behavior continues and I took that as a warning...a preface to what you just posted maybe? That's why I said that. I just hope with you saying that it will mean I will at least have some protection from the constant badgering I have to put up from flat out being called a hacker or passive aggressiveness. You are asking me to have less fun so others can have more fun and that's okay if it means keeping this game going longer. So far there has been no restraint from a small number of players verbal abusing anytime I'm in the server. I'm just asking for you to tell the community to calm down with their words much like you have told me to with my style. If I am at risk of ban for "no fun abuse" but willing to change then the others accusing me should be at risk for ban if they don't change their "verbal abuse" either. It also sucks that nobody is looking to inform themselves on the game to learn, watch or teach but I think that just speaks to the nature of some of the players willful ignorance but you can find that anywhere in this world.
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Re: Player -flea- Cheating

Post by ryeontherocks »

I very much agree with Trench's position, but one thing flea there is alot of skilled players on this server however life does get in the way...i for one have a job that requires many many hours of skill and concentration and unlike most of us that come here is to have fun...i don't think your helping yourself by acting condescending that others don't have 12 hours a day to play or time to fart around googling how to snipe better...

A more friendly approach with team play in mind ie a supporting role and friendly banter can be far more rewarding than simply trying to outscore "for fun"...if you dont try and instigate... the verbal abuse will be something us admins will deal with...hence trenches post.

keep in mind playing here is a privilege not a right.. Swanny is nice enough to pay for us to play for free...if you think life is not fair go to the cancer ward or heart clinic where i spent a lot of time and lost loved ones then you will quickly realize this is just a game and life is short.
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Re: Player -flea- Cheating

Post by flea »

Rye, you tell me not to be condescending but you are being exactly that in your post. 12 hours of watching videos, playing and farting around, daddy's computer - suggestions I have no life/job/responsibility? I sense some mental doddery. Visit a cancer or heart clinic to learn a lesson about life? Very insensitive statement. You know nothing about what me or anyone else has dealt with personally. I know it's just a game and I treat it as such. You may have more fun with teamwork/banter but I have more fun challenging myself to be consistent, play well and score good numbers. I only see that being a problem when it becomes disruptive and unfun for others and apparently it's gotten to that point and as I've said I'm willing to tone it down.
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Re: Player -flea- Cheating

Post by zanshin1 »

DABR was banned?
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Re: Player -flea- Cheating

Post by Hav3n »

So - by this logic, Southern Cross should not play here anymore, right?

:o
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Re: Player -flea- Cheating

Post by ButtBreathOriginal »

Hav,
I totally understand that statement...Ya'll slow down a bit and let me fix a bag of popcorn. Don't want to miss any of this...Just curious though...anyone ever heard of key binding?...

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Re: Player -flea- Cheating

Post by Demonic »

can we close this thread now?!......
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Trench
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Re: Player -flea- Cheating

Post by Trench »

flea wrote:...a preface to what you just posted maybe? That's why I said that.
Thanks, clarified and understood. There just wasn't a "please change your gameplay" in those PMs, and you're actually completely free to continue playing in exactly whatever manner you want, or in whatever manner you find to be the most fun. It just wouldn't be on this server. We're willing to take you up on the offer to play differently on EA117, if that's your choice rather than playing elsewhere.
flea wrote:I just hope with you saying that it will mean I will at least have some protection from the constant badgering I have to put up from flat out being called a hacker or passive aggressiveness.
As Rye indicated, that will certainly be something for the admins to handle if and when someone won't drop it once their concern has been acknowledged in-game. But I wouldn't want you to confuse that to mean "it's no longer allowed for anyone to mention they think another player is cheating."

Because that's not something that is likely to change until the actual change in gameplay happens & causes such persistent observations to cease. Simply "saying" you're willing to change hasn't solved the problem yet, and we can equally assume people are "willing" to stop calling you out /if/ the behavior actually changes. But actual change would need to occur, and not just "change just from your own point of view" or "change unless the admins aren't around" or similar. Players continuing to call out on this is actually part of knowing whether meaningful change has even happened.
flea wrote:It also sucks that nobody is looking to inform themselves on the game to learn, watch or teach but I think that just speaks to the nature of some of the players willful ignorance but you can find that anywhere in this world.
During one of the DABR discussions I think one of the EA117 admins summarized it well, although I'm paraphrasing, to say "Why would an NBA player drive downtown just to disrupt the street court games by easily & constantly dunking on everyone and then leaving." Every one of them are playing the same game by the same set of rules, yet the people playing on the street court were just trying to have a fun neighborhood game. They're not trying to play at NBA level or defend against NBA-level skills, not withstanding that they're perfectly aware that NBA-level play exists and are not "willfully ignorant" or in need of being educated that such skills are possible.

The point of EA117's Desert Combat server /is/ to just have fun playing. It's not here fostering league or even clan play, nor have the players shunned Battlefield 1942 in order to move on to more advanced games with even more tactical abilities and controls. EA117 Desert Combat is simply here for fun, period. And we want to protect and keep it that way for the majority of our playing community. Our bias is not towards the minority of NBA players or players who feel compelled to cheat and show up wanting to just dunk on everyone.

Let's get out there and have a fun game for everyone. If there is sincerity on both sides of the issue, perhaps it might even be the last we have to discuss this instance.

-Trench
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Re: Player -flea- Cheating

Post by Hav3n »

During one of the DABR discussions I think one of the EA117 admins summarized it well, although I'm paraphrasing, to say "Why would an NBA player drive downtown just to disrupt the street court games by easily & constantly dunking on everyone and then leaving."
Maybe because they're not an NBA player, they're a former div II college player, and there are no other leagues or games to be had in the city. They can't play professionally and all the city leagues have dried up except for the street ball games they drive to. It's fun for them, same as it is for everyone else.

I appreciate the server's attitude on this, that it might just be better for someone really really good to move on because they're heavily disrupting the status quo, but I also appreciate that anyone playing here is playing here for the same reason I am. It's fun.

Typically, people go where its interesting to play. I doubt people good are coming here to "dunk" on people as their first reason because there simply is no where else to go.

The fact they dunk on people might be because this is the only hoop to play on?
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Re: Player -flea- Cheating

Post by flea »

Hav3n nailed it. That is apples to oranges and that is a flawed argument considering your question is "Why are you even here if you're better than everyone else...how is that fun?" Because it's a great game, the same reason everyone else is playing. I noticed something today in Sea Rigs when I went 30-3 (yes, cheese I reviewed the round and it was 30-3, you win!..but I was also 30-6 lol) You see me going 30-3 but do you see the players that are in all honestly just VERY bad going 1-15 and 1-14? Those are the people I'm killing constantly. Is it unreasonable to think I can't get a high score without being disruptive because in that situation. Default did not approach telling me to tone it down in an administrative way, but rather a very threatening tone. He didn't say "flea tone it down please, I think it may becoming disruptive" instead "what happened to toning it down. you better change it or you are gone"..45 minutes into the round. Are you guys asking not to get a high score at all because you're concerned people will see that and automatically assume cheating or are you worried about my actually game play making it not fun...or both? Because there is a very big difference and the former I do not feel is grounds for a ban. I do not feel my style in rigs was disruptive at all. The game was fairly competitive. I'll have that entire round posted tonight so you can judge for yourself.
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