lag

Re: lag

Postby Trench » Tue Feb 23, 2016 9:56 am

Thonger wrote:But it sounds like the paths between my IP and EA117 has a bottleneck somewhere.

There isn't actually a slow-down or bottleneck shown yet. All we've seen thus far is "when you were in-game saying there was an issue, trying to traceroute you from Dallas showed many more routers (and an unknown number of additional hops) the traffic was taking once it reached Hawaii.

We can only suspect this may relate to the issue, until a stronger correlation is shown between "every time the problem happens, the route has also changed in this manner." Or the additional observations will end up disproving it, by seeing "the problem occurs even when the route doesn't have all these additional hops."

Thonger wrote:Is my tracert going to be identical to yours (in reverse)? That is, does the signal coming back to me return through its original path or does it take the path you're seeing from your end?

No, they aren't by definition identical, although in many cases they can be. It is suspicious -- but not by definition "wrong" -- that at the same time your /outbound/ traceroute showed only one hop inside Hawaii, my /inbound/ traceroute to your address showed the traffic passing through three or more different routers inside Hawaii. If you didn't need more than one hop to get out of Hawaii, it seems likely an error on TWC's part that the return packets are having to go through three or more routers inside Hawaii.

I think a useful analogy is to think about it like a highway, where the northbound side doesn't have exactly all the same exits as the southbound side, and/or some of them are closed or detoured due to construction. If I'm headed /to/ you, I may be able to make different and/or smarter decisions that aren't necessarily the same as the decisions available to me later when I'm headed back home /from/ you. Even though "I intended to take the same main highway" both coming and going.

There is no way for you to see "what route will my traffic take when getting /back/ to me?" when running traceroute from your computer. All you can see is "which route did it take to get /to/ my destination?" Something would have to run a traceroute "from the destination back to you" (like I am doing) in order to see what route the packets in that direction are taking.

Just now when I looked (5:30am your time) the route is now "back to normal" for traffic I send your way. Meaning we're back to just one hop inside Hawaii:

tracert 24.25.230.9 wrote:Tracing route to xe-0-0-12.hnllhiqe01h.hawaii.rr.com [24.25.230.9]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms FIOS_Quantum_Gateway.fios-router.home [xx.xx.xx.xx]
2 4 ms 4 ms 4 ms xxxxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxx.verizon-gni.net [xx.xx.xx.xx]
3 9 ms 6 ms 7 ms 172.102.51.78
4 * * * Request timed out.
5 36 ms 49 ms 38 ms 0.ae1.XL3.LAX15.ALTER.NET [140.222.227.15]
6 36 ms 46 ms 46 ms TenGigE0-6-0-5.GW5.LAX15.ALTER.NET [152.63.112.254]
7 36 ms 74 ms 36 ms tba.customer.alter.net [152.179.21.134]
8 37 ms 39 ms 39 ms bu-ether24.tustca4200w-bcr00.tbone.rr.com [66.109.9.27]
9 40 ms 39 ms 39 ms agg1.tustcaft01r.socal.rr.com [66.109.6.65]
10 39 ms 39 ms 39 ms agg10.lsancarc01r.socal.rr.com [66.75.161.49]
11 84 ms 84 ms 84 ms agg1.milnhixd01r.hawaii.rr.com [72.129.45.1]
12 96 ms 86 ms 96 ms xe-0-0-12.hnllhiqe01h.hawaii.rr.com [24.25.230.9]

Trace complete.

We'll check again some time you're playing and you /don't/ see the lag, to see whether presence of the extra return hops correlates to when you're seeing the issue.

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Re: lag

Postby Thonger » Tue Feb 23, 2016 7:46 pm

Mali Mrav wrote:why u have a lot of servises running?
i have 30 running maybe u need to shut some down look on google every services and disable it if u dont want him to be running


whatever's running is what windows put in. i really haven't changed my system much since i installed windows 7 for the first time after putting the new computer together. just some small stuff like software i like, heck, i didn't even put photoshop back on, so i've been rocking amazing photo manipulations in ms paint! lol
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Re: lag

Postby Thonger » Tue Feb 23, 2016 7:49 pm

Trenchie,

I like the highway analogy. It makes sense that way.

My theory is that the signal is getting bunched up on a thong-based server, and all that extra, unnecessary material is causing the lag. We need to shrink the thong to get things back on the right track.
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Re: lag

Postby Trench » Wed Feb 24, 2016 1:32 am

Trench wrote:We'll check again some time you're playing and you /don't/ see the lag, to see whether presence of the extra return hops correlates to when you're seeing the issue.

Tried to grab it today when you said it started working okay, but by the time I ran the traceroute and got back into the game, you were already saying it was bad again.

But for what it's worth, all the traceroutes I ran this evening (probably between 8pm and 9pm your time) showed four or more hops inside of Hawaii, instead of just three hops inside Hawaii we saw earlier. Note you also had a different IP address this time, so that may be the reason for taking yet another different path inside Hawaii:

tracert 24.25.230.9 wrote:Tracing route to cpe-76-88-133-108.hawaii.res.rr.com [76.88.133.108]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms FIOS_Quantum_Gateway.fios-router.home [xx.xx.xx.xx]
2 4 ms 4 ms 4 ms xxxxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxx.verizon-gni.net [xx.xx.xx.xx]
3 3 ms 4 ms 7 ms 172.102.49.202
4 * * * Request timed out.
5 146 ms 59 ms 91 ms 0.ae2.XL4.LAX15.ALTER.NET [140.222.227.21]
6 42 ms 36 ms 44 ms TenGigE0-7-0-1.GW5.LAX15.ALTER.NET [152.63.116.154]
7 35 ms 34 ms 34 ms tba.customer.alter.net [152.179.21.134]
8 36 ms 39 ms 39 ms bu-ether14.tustca4200w-bcr00.tbone.rr.com [66.109.6.130]
9 33 ms 41 ms 37 ms agg1.tustcaft01r.socal.rr.com [66.109.6.65]
10 89 ms 89 ms 89 ms agg1.kmlahi0701r.hawaii.rr.com [72.129.45.3]
11 86 ms 86 ms 86 ms agg10.milnhixd01r.hawaii.rr.com [72.129.45.40]
12 99 ms 96 ms 99 ms 72.129.46.23
13 88 ms 86 ms 89 ms 24.25.231.22
14 * * * Request timed out.
15 * * * Request timed out.


So we're still in want of catching a couple samples when the lag /isn't/ happening, to see whether there is something notably different at that time.

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Re: lag

Postby fromage » Thu Feb 25, 2016 11:07 pm

Thonger wrote:Trenchie,

I like the highway analogy. It makes sense that way.

My theory is that the signal is getting bunched up on a thong-based server, and all that extra, unnecessary material is causing the lag. We need to shrink the thong to get things back on the right track.


Like a snappy, elastic thong with a crisp *SNAP*. This is a technical term for your traceroute thongologies.
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Re: lag

Postby Thonger » Sat Feb 27, 2016 7:46 pm

does look to be running a little higher today, usually the ping is around 88-94. had problems lagging on reloading and firing back (especially when being fired upon).


Tracing route to 8.12.64.130 over a maximum of 30 hops

1 8 ms 7 ms 7 ms 142.254.191.109
2 26 ms 24 ms 21 ms xe-0-0-12.hnllhiqe01h.hawaii.rr.com [24.25.230.9]
3 8 ms 9 ms 9 ms 72.129.46.22
4 63 ms 60 ms 59 ms agg31.lsancarc01r.socal.rr.com [72.129.45.0]
5 70 ms 63 ms 63 ms 66.109.3.230
6 61 ms 61 ms 59 ms bu-ether33.chctilwc00w-bcr00.tbone.rr.com [66.109.1.41]
7 61 ms 60 ms 68 ms ix-24-0.tcore1.LVW-Los-Angeles.as6453.net [66.110.59.81]
8 66 ms 69 ms 66 ms 66.110.59.102
9 89 ms 91 ms 86 ms et-2-1-0.dal34.ip4.gtt.net [89.149.184.177]
10 90 ms 92 ms 97 ms as20473.xe-5-1-2.cr1.dfw1.us.as4436.gtt.net [69.31.63.238]
11 89 ms 92 ms 99 ms 8.12.64.130

Trace complete.
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Re: lag

Postby Thonger » Sat Feb 27, 2016 7:57 pm

also i dont seem to be running more processes than normal
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Re: lag

Postby Mali Mrav » Sun Feb 28, 2016 9:03 am

so u cant change your modem?
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Re: lag

Postby Trench » Sun Feb 28, 2016 11:32 am

Thonger wrote:does look to be running a little higher today, usually the ping is around 88-94. had problems lagging on reloading and firing back (especially when being fired upon).

I agree that "a sudden huge spike in ping" does not seem to be a component of whatever problem you're encountering here. Your ping seems to be close to that range even when you're saying the problem isn't happening.

And the route your /outbound/ traffic takes seems to remain the same, too. There may be additional hops appearing in the route of your /inbound/ traffic, but we haven't seen that conclusively yet, because since we began looking we haven't really caught an instance where "the problem definitely isn't happening."

The traceroutes I took yesterday when you said lag was occurring all still showed the "now there are four hops inside of Hawaii" that we saw earlier.

The fact that you said the problem also happens for you when playing on Team-SiMPLE's California server at least rules out "it's only when trying to reach EA117." But that still doesn't allow us to confirm it's the TWC network in Hawaii versus something internal to your computer.

Not that I'm saying there can't be lag issues on EA117 also. During one (1) of the many instances you were seeing lag last night, you might have noticed /everyone's/ ping had gone up. e.g. Even mine went from 6 to about 30, Raven was saying his had doubled too, etc.

So that was definitely either an issue on the EA117 server or inside the datacenter where it's hosted, or maybe an issue with a route that is "close" to the EA117 server such that almost everyone passes through that route (e.g. the last leg of the GTT network that brings traffic to that datacenter).

We talked about going to someone else's house who didn't have TWC, and you weren't aware of that being an option. The other thing that is "in your control" is to try a different computer at /your/ house. Or, if the option is available, simply removing and setting aside your current hard drive (so that you don't have to lose or re-install anything). And then using a different / smaller / test hard drive, perform a clean installation of nothing except Windows and Battlefield 1942 and Desert Combat.

That way you for sure have any other software variables out of the picture, and can see whether the issue continues to occur even in that configuration. If there is no lag you can say it really must be something about your primary Windows installation; if the issue continues to occur you'll know it's nothing you can change on your computer and must be in the TWC network as we suspect.

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Re: lag

Postby S.O.S » Sun Feb 28, 2016 12:08 pm

I'll leave the diagnosis for possible networking issues to Trench as I know little about it. Got the feeling that you don't have lags when you start the game but they get worse as you keep playing. That could be a symptom of cpu or gpu overheating. Try this program to check you temperatures in real time: http://www.hwinfo.com/. It's free and gives you a lot of info of your system.
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Re: lag

Postby Thonger » Mon Feb 29, 2016 11:00 pm

did this tracert when the lag was horrendous on docks. i think my score was like 3 kills, 20 deaths or something like that.


Tracing route to 8.12.64.130 over a maximum of 30 hops

1 9 ms 7 ms 8 ms 142.254.191.109
2 28 ms 21 ms 17 ms xe-0-0-12.hnllhiqe01h.hawaii.rr.com [24.25.230.9]
3 18 ms 10 ms 9 ms 72.129.46.22
4 54 ms 59 ms 55 ms agg31.lsancarc01r.socal.rr.com [72.129.45.0]
5 70 ms 64 ms 64 ms 66.109.3.230
6 64 ms 64 ms 60 ms bu-ether33.chctilwc00w-bcr00.tbone.rr.com [66.109.1.41]
7 66 ms 69 ms 73 ms ix-24-0.tcore1.LVW-Los-Angeles.as6453.net [66.110.59.81]
8 68 ms 71 ms 68 ms 66.110.59.102
9 88 ms 98 ms 89 ms et-2-1-0.dal34.ip4.gtt.net [89.149.184.177]
10 89 ms 95 ms 91 ms as20473.xe-5-1-2.cr1.dfw1.us.as4436.gtt.net [69.31.63.238]
11 89 ms 97 ms 92 ms 8.12.64.130

Trace complete.
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Re: lag

Postby Thonger » Mon Feb 29, 2016 11:11 pm

the biggest leap in ping is when it reaches the west coast, which usually is around 55-60 ms. to texas, 90 ms is reasonable. i'm really doubting that the ping is the issue here, and it's making me wonder if it's a hardware issue.

i'm not sure if i can necessarily install just windows and 42. there's a bunch of other drivers and such that require installation for it to recognize drives, ethernet card, etc. i've tried disabling a lot of the unnecessary crap like update checking software. tonight i even tried a slight overclock of my video card using (evga precision - following a youtube video on a simple overclock scheme - gpu clock +100mhz, mem clock +45mhz), and it was the same.

sos:

ran hwinfo, nvidia gpu seems to be averaging about 30 C, cpu about 45 C, doesn't seem very high
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Re: lag

Postby Mali Mrav » Mon Feb 29, 2016 11:15 pm

thong go on facebook
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Re: lag

Postby Thonger » Mon Feb 29, 2016 11:15 pm

fyi some of the symptoms i see of really bad lag

- my deaths are 5-10x higher than my kills
- helos can't stay in the air, they keep dropping in turns
- i can't ever see who kills me
- the video itself has a "sludgy" feel, that is, everything feels slower
- double chat
- sniper rifle won't stay scoped
- expack won't switch to plunger
- delayed expack throw (usually ends up at my feet and blowing myself up)

on docks tonight when i did the tracert, after i got the flag, my screen kept "slideshowing" as i ran thru the oil tanks -- fps went waaay down and i could barely figure out where i was running to...
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Re: lag

Postby S.O.S » Tue Mar 01, 2016 1:17 am

Thonger wrote:ran hwinfo, nvidia gpu seems to be averaging about 30 C, cpu about 45 C, doesn't seem very high

So it's definitely not overheating. Do you play other games and have similar problems? Try run in Single Player mode. If you don't have issues playing locally, you can probably rule out faulty hardware or drivers. You might have already done this, check game settings so that the Video Display Mode matches the native resolution of your monitor and chose LAN-T3>1M in the Connection Speed part. Tried play on other servers, maybe some non-US ones? You should be able to play smoothly with a around 200 ping, as long as it doesn't spike. Your connection should go through a quite different route to European or Asian servers.
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Re: lag

Postby Trench » Tue Mar 01, 2016 10:35 am

Thonger wrote:i'm not sure if i can necessarily install just windows and 42. there's a bunch of other drivers and such that require installation for it to recognize drives, ethernet card, etc.

Understood. Indeed you will have to install everything that is /required/. The real point was to have "zero things that were /not/ required" in the equation. Which for the case where the Windows DVD and Windows Update delivers all the hardware support you need is "nothing except Windows and BF1942 and DC." But having to add video drivers Microsoft doesn't have or Ethernet drivers to get things started is fine too.

The double-chat seems like it should be a clue: When it happens, you start seeing everyone else's chat twice? Or is it just any chat you send shows up on the server twice?

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Re: lag

Postby Thonger » Tue Mar 01, 2016 3:44 pm

nah just my own chats.

mali's been helping me diagnose shit thru FB.

one of the things he suggested was trying different DNS instead of the ones automatically used by the ISP. haven't had a chance to try it on 117 yet, but i've noticed some changes (some good, some bad) by using different DNSes on european dc/42 servers. hope to give it a try later today and see if it makes a difference.

currently using the DNS from OpenDNS:

ipv4: 208.67.222.222 / 208.67.220.220
ipv6: 2620:0:ccc::2 / 2620:0:ccd::2

tried google's earlier, and while the graphics seemed less "sluggish," actual response time was slower, eg, shotgun won't fire immediately when trigger pulled, noticeable delay when actually scoring a kill (game will show kill credit a second later after it happens -- also it could have something to do with having a 230+ ping).
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Re: lag

Postby fromage » Wed Mar 02, 2016 10:47 pm

Have you also tried resetting your HOSTS file? I don't think it's as much of an issue since you said you got a new computer but in case you transferred any software over, it might be worth a try.

If you've got Win 7 or earlier, try the "Here's an easy fix" download on this page:
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/972034

What's the Hosts file

The Hosts file is a computer file that is used by the operating system to map hostnames to IP addresses. The hosts file is one of several system facilities that assists in addressing network nodes in a computer network. It is a common part of an operating system's IP implementation, and serves the function of translating human-friendly hostnames into numeric protocol addresses, called IP addresses, that identify and locate a host in an IP network.

The Hosts file contains lines of text consisting of an IP address in the first text field followed by one or more host names. Each field is separated by white space (Tabs are often preferred for historical reasons, but spaces are also used). Comment lines may be included, and they are indicated by a hash character (#) in the first position of such lines. Entirely blank lines in the file are ignored.
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