BS is getting real old...

KI Sawyer AFB
Member
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2014 12:13 pm

BS is getting real old...

Post by KI Sawyer AFB » Sun Apr 24, 2016 4:10 pm

I call out Kilgore for breaking the rules (firing into uncap main & killing on a non-firing piece of armor) on a conquest map, then lies about it, everyone jumps on MY shit for calling him out and in the process of defending myself I get banned by an admin named "Player". That's just awesome. :roll:

Of course this is after I observe & call out another player strafing and bombing helis just as they leave the ground from the same uncap... and no one seems to care.

Then a couple weeks ago I get repeatedly kicked by Reyalp on numerous maps for "disrupting gameplay" when I am guarding the flag in a CTF map... and judging from some of the recent threads this is not exactly a new complaint of abuse regarding him.

Ya know - as one of the few remaining DC servers on the net, one would think you guys would be interested in player retention instead of sucking the enjoyment out of it by shielding folks who violate rules that affect gameplay and punishing those who point it out or are otherwise trying to enjoy the game. I remember years ago and for many years that this was one of the best servers to play because there was no bullshit like this. I sure would like to see y'all bring those days back again.

With that in mind & as the end goal - how can we go about resolving this stupid ban issue, not to mention players violating gameplay rules?

Thanks from an old-timer.

S.O.S
Server Admin
Server Admin
Posts: 494
Joined: Fri May 22, 2009 11:41 pm

Re: BS is getting real old...

Post by S.O.S » Sun Apr 24, 2016 4:42 pm

The general rules about attacking uncap main:

Empty SA can be taken out at anytime
Occupied arty can be destroyed
Players firing out can be killed
You can follow and kill players returning to main
And of course you can snipe

Claimed being an old-timer, I'm sure you know the rules well. Kilgore's kill was legit. Tried to explain it to you, asked you to stop ranting and play, issued a couple of warnings as you were still at it. What more do you need before a kick? You threw the F word at me while leaving, that earned you a 3-day ban.

About the kicks some days back. You switched back to blue after being auto-switched several times which is a kickable violation of server rules. You do see the yellow server messages during games, right? Once you were forced to stay red, you drove a truck around base, nearly run teamates down and essentially blocking team from leaving main. Watched you do it a couple of times and that was disruptive gameplay in my book.

Now you know the rules better. Don't let me catch you again.

User avatar
Sarge 1/68th Armor
EA 117's Smart Ass, Hooah!!
Posts: 2384
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2010 5:34 pm
Location: Cedar City, Utah
United States of America

Re: BS is getting real old...

Post by Sarge 1/68th Armor » Sun Apr 24, 2016 6:21 pm

I just love reading the Admins response. It's so fully packed with a well documented different version.
LMAO. Can't wait to get back on as soon as I can piggyback someone's Wi-Fi.
'Silver Lions" 1st Battalion, 68th Armor Regiment, 8th Infantry Division/
SFC. TANK CDR. M1A1....HUA!

With Great Speed

KI Sawyer AFB
Member
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2014 12:13 pm

Re: BS is getting real old...

Post by KI Sawyer AFB » Sun Apr 24, 2016 9:37 pm

S.O.S wrote:The general rules about attacking uncap main:

Occupied arty can be destroyed
[...]
Claimed being an old-timer, I'm sure you know the rules well. Kilgore's kill was legit. Tried to explain it to you
Sorry - but you are wrong. As per your own rules posted on your own server and forum - see the screen capture here:

Image

The only thing that is mentioned anywhere in the rules is the unmanned SA3. There is zero mention of the arty in this regard whatsoever. If you disagree with this - then it is an internal issue and it is one you all need to work out amongst yourselves - not willy-nilly against the players and without misrepresenting the rules to them in the process.

Now - just to alleviate what I am sure is coming next - here is the actual chain of events as they happened - and as specific as it can be:

*I was in the MLRS
*MLRS was on the thin strip of land in between the two ponds to the north of the allied base
*I fired the MLRS from the thin strip of land in between the two ponds to the north of the allied base
*I killed an axis team member who was occupying the flag in the northwest corner of the map using the MLRS which I was in which was on the thin strip of land in between the two ponds to the north of the allied base.
*I was killed while in the MLRS which was on the thin strip of land in between the two ponds to the north of the allied base.
*I respawned in the allied base
*I went to the MLRS spawn point in the allied base
*I waited about a minute or so at the MLRS spawn point in the allied base
*The MLRS spawned at the MLRS spawn point in the allied base
*I entered the MLRS that had spawned at the MLRS spawn point in the allied base
*I drove the MLRS which I had entered which had spawned at the MLRS spawn point in the allied base to the east along the south wall of the hangar that is in the allied base
* I rounded the southeast corner of the hangar that is in the allied base to head to the north exit of the allied base along the east wall of the hangar that is in the allied base while driving the MLRS which I was in that I had driven from the MLRS spawn point in the allied base
*While making that turn someone chatted asking Kilgore why he was shooting into our main from the hills to the southeast of the allied base. I have no idea who it was... but someone else was calling him on it before me
*He hadn't been shooting at me. There were no shots landing anywhere in my vicinity and I was concealed by the raised building until I emerged into his field of view almost to the northeast corner of the hangar in the allied base
*I hadn't switched to guns in the MLRS I had been driving from the MLRS spawn point in the allied base
*I hadn't fired a single shot since I had respawned after I had been killed in the MLRS on the thin strip of land between the ponds just to the north of the allied base
*I was killed with 1 shot while in the MLRS just at the northeast corner of the hangar in the allied base
*Over 1 minute had passed since I had killed someone with the MLRS from the previous spawning which I was in on the thin strip of land between the ponds to the north of the allied base
*By all aspects - the occupation of the MLRS at the time of death was a fresh spawn and not a continuation of a previous occupation in a location more than 3 clicks away and resulting in a death & respawn of both player and equipment in between

These are the facts - and they are not disputable. By the very definition of the exceptions I pasted above the attack was illegal, and is in direct contrast to what you posted. Again - this is an internal issue that needs to be worked out between you guys and not at the expense of the players. I was playing within the limitations of the rules - which you are right - I *DO* know well, and I was apparently more aware of than you at the time - and called out a player who was not. In fact - I cannot think of a single server that I have ever played on which had !attack.uncap rules which allowed attacking of non-firing equipment while in uncaps as it defeats the entire purpose of !attack.uncap.
What more do you need before a kick? You threw the F word at me while leaving, that earned you a 3-day ban.
Incorrect chain of events, again. The F bomb was dropped as a result of the unfounded and administratively abusive kick... not the other way around. It was just another in a continuing string of them conducted by you specifically that I have either been a victim of or observed you execute countless times in recent weeks - and in case you haven't noticed by the numerous mentions of them here in the forum - people are getting tired of it. In all the hours I play here - never see any of the other admins giving as much grief and interference to the players as I do of you. It is a stark contrast between you and the rest of them, that is for certain.
About the kicks some days back. You switched back to blue after being auto-switched several times which is a kickable violation of server rules. You do see the yellow server messages during games, right?
Yep... and that part of it I own up to. Personally I think it is bullshit - especially if someone has 1st-hand, very personal and stomach-sickening reservations of being associated with & force to play on the side of the very forces they fought against, but I digress. I tried appealing to your better sense about it multiple times - but it became clear that you JDGAF and I relented to play on red
Once you were forced to stay red, you drove a truck around base, nearly run teamates down and essentially blocking team from leaving main. Watched you do it a couple of times and that was disruptive gameplay in my book.
Sorry - but your recollection and/or interpretation of the events is so far from the truth it's not even funny. After finally realizing that you couldn't be bothered to understand why someone might have issue with being force to play red - I went ahead to do it and just wait until I got auto-switched again. (btw - that is something you guys should take a deeper look at... very often players will get pinballed between teams multiple times in a very short period because the timeout on the balancer is too long and/or it doesn't recognize that it just switched that same player a moment ago. Pick one and done, eh?).

So - in taking a look around - there were 3 players who were just standing there in main - not doing a damn thing... including you. I entered the BMP and went to go into the corner to await some unlucky schleb who was going to come and try to get the flag. The player nearest that corner kept intentionally getting in front of me to prevent me from getting to it without running him over & killing him (which happened once - and no I am not going to apologize when he did it intentionally). After that - I spun around and tried exiting the area only to unintentionally catch the corner of the concrete barrier (as I wasn't intimately familiar with that spawn point) which rolled the BMP up onto it's side, blowing up as I exited it. This of course resulted in you and the other 2 taking damage from the explosion... and myself as well. Another kick. Yay.

So then I took a truck and began ferrying players out of main and north towards the hills, quickly returning to get more. Sometimes it took a moment for players to spawn and jump in. Another kick. At no time did I block anyone from exiting the spawn - nor could I have as the exit is 3 to 4 truck-widths wide and has 3 exits. After more ferrying (and continued observing of you and the other player just standing around in main or walking in circles) - I attempted to position the truck inside the archway just to the east of the flag. Having not had much time in that spawn - I had no idea if it would fit or not. I quickly realized the truck would not go up the stairs and gave up and that is when you kicked me yet again. Once I was able to reconnect I was auto'ed to blue and played the rest of the round and the next 5 maps without incident - largely due to the fact that you had left the game at that point.

I might also add that since that day you and I have not had any issues and I have not once bitched about not playing on red - until today when 2 red players had the audacity to tell me to switch after I called out Kilgore's illegal kill. What sense that makes for them to do that in response I have no idea... the only thing I can think is that they were tired of getting their asses kicked by me all round as I had a huge leading score until you kicked me. Additionally - I have not had any issues with any other admins either since that day with you and the trucks.
Now you know the rules better. Don't let me catch you again.
As do you... courtesy of me... so I'd appreciate it if you would lay off a bit and not misrepresent the rules any longer as well. Not just for my sake, but for all the folks that you seem to have a hair trigger on the kick button for. I am far from the first person to have brought your administrative practices to your attention... but it sure would be nice for the players, the forum and the server at large if I were the last.

Just something to consider, SOS/Reyalp/Player/whateverelseyoucallyourself.
Last edited by KI Sawyer AFB on Sun Apr 24, 2016 9:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

KI Sawyer AFB
Member
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2014 12:13 pm

Re: BS is getting real old...

Post by KI Sawyer AFB » Sun Apr 24, 2016 9:39 pm

Sarge 1/68th Armor wrote:I just love reading the Admins response. It's so fully packed with a well documented different version.
Yeah, well you know what they say... there are 3 sides to every story: His, hers and the truth.
Can't wait to get back on as soon as I can piggyback someone's Wi-Fi.
Could try paying for some service of your own? It's pretty cheap these days.

S.O.S
Server Admin
Server Admin
Posts: 494
Joined: Fri May 22, 2009 11:41 pm

Re: BS is getting real old...

Post by S.O.S » Sun Apr 24, 2016 11:08 pm

Although not specified in the rules section, SA and arty are two exceptions that can be taken out under conditions I mentioned as they are both meant to be fired from a distance, often in main. That has been enforced for years. The reason you were kicked was the fact you didn't comply with admin requests, through chat and server commands. Asked you to stop ranting twice, !wlang, !wlisten, then the kick. The F bomb came the moment you were booted. So the ban stays.

I don't care what you experienced in your personal life. You come to our server, you follow our rules. You do realize you are mostly playing against Americans in the red team right? Don't think I ever saw an Iraqi here. On a serious note, maybe you should pay VA a visit for PTSD or something that makes you taking a game too seriously.

You were obviously wrong in your claim about seeing me standing in main doing nothing. I didn't even spawn so I could ghost you. I saw what you did and I deemed them disruptive.

I understand some players have issues with my administrating style. I do tend to enforce the rules more firmly than other admins, but never abused my power. All my administrative actions are explained in details when challenged and corrected with an apology if I was wrong. It will continue to be that way.

User avatar
Mali Mrav
Member
Posts: 296
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2015 1:53 pm
Contact:
Croatia

Re: BS is getting real old...

Post by Mali Mrav » Mon Apr 25, 2016 1:22 am

good reply sos
Silent Assassin

kilgore
Member
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2015 10:45 pm

Re: BS is getting real old...

Post by kilgore » Mon Apr 25, 2016 3:18 am

OK, my side of what unfolded. What Sawyer thinks he knows but was not there to see it...

I had already killed a manned and firing SA3 earlier. Trench was taking out tanks and planes so I took him out from that hill. Fast forward 10 minutes (give or take 5 minutes) and I see the SA3 and MLRS both getting kills, so make my long journey around the lakes on the east side of the map, start climbing the hill and see the Frog leave the main base. I don't know who was flying and didn't see if they had killed anyone/anything, so i finished my climb. Get to the top and can't make out the SA3 - it's hard to see from up there but it looked like it might have been destroyed. I then look at where the MLRS is usually firing from and don't see it in the open - I think it might be behind a building - the wood one or hangar. I was there maybe 10-15 seconds at the top. Someone asked why i was hiding there (not sawyer - I don't recall who it was - someone that plays often if I recall). I laughed and said i was hunting SA3's and MLRS's. They seemed agitated, but unlike sawyers skewed recollection, i was "hiding", not "firing", according to this person, and I had yet to fire a round. No rule against observing enemy uncap. Then I see activity. I notice the MLRS is manned and seems to be moving out from behind the wood building behind the hangar...and I see a tank heading my way. I fire at the MLRS (killing it) then take hits from the tank. I get off one round, miss, and duck behind the hill to repair. I head out of the area and get shot by the tank, finally killed - by that one or another one. I was on that mountain (from the beginning of climb until death) for maybe a minute. Could have been longer, but not much. I'm not one for hanging around waiting - especially in a tank. I prefer moving and hunting.

THE ONLY REASON I WAS ON THAT HILL WAS TO HUNT THE SA3 AND MLRS.

If you think otherwise, that's great....you are entitled to your thoughts. If you have seen me hitting uncaps regularly then you'd have every right to bitch. Most people on here will agree that my sniping the mains gets annoying, but not firing with a tank, because it doesn't happen.

If the MLRS re spawned and you (Sawyer) jumped in and hadn't fired yet, and I killed you, then that was an accident, not intentional. But acting like it was constantly occurring was being infantile. The only thing I ever recall about you on the server is that you have some kind of issue with someone, you spam chat about something or you push your real world issues onto a bunch of people that just come on here to have fun, unwind, or kill time - but most don't know or care about what everyone else is there for.

If the thought of playing as some imaginary enemy in an imaginary GAME causes you so much anxiety, I'm guessing you probably shouldn't be playing FPS type games at all. Or maybe you should play against the bots offline - you can slaughter "Iraqi's" all day and night, nobody cares what team you are on and nobody breaks the rules.

KI Sawyer AFB
Member
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2014 12:13 pm

Re: BS is getting real old...

Post by KI Sawyer AFB » Mon Apr 25, 2016 10:32 am

S.O.S wrote:Although not specified in the rules section, SA and arty are two exceptions that can be taken out under conditions I mentioned as they are both meant to be fired from a distance, often in main. That has been enforced for years.
So in one post you tell me what the rule is - and when I show a direct contradiction your response is to say it's "not in the rules" - yet IS a rule??? Yet you expect me to "know the rules"??? That is utter hogwash and is some seriously jacked up logic, man. The unoccupied SA3 exemption IS in fact in the rules and I mentioned as much (do I need to screenshot that one for you too?). The MLRS is mentioned ONCE in the entire rules document - and it is not in the "exceptions" portion - and is not mentioned in the context of being an exemption either. To date I have also NEVER seen a non-firing MLRS attacked on EA117 while in it's main - until yesterday, despite your claim that it's been that way for years. If the admin doesn't know or follow the written rules for the server - then there cannot be any expectations by the admin for the players to know or follow the unwritten rules... or whatever other rule(s) you might create & observe in your head for the day.

If it is a rule - then please GET IT in the damned rules. This entire situation could have and should have been avoided - as I do happen to read and know the written rules of the server - and have for years. Unwritten rules should not be enforceable in these sorts of situations.
The reason you were kicked was the fact you didn't comply with admin requests, through chat and server commands. Asked you to stop ranting twice, !wlang, !wlisten, then the kick.
So if someone complains about a (written) rules violation - and someone else lying about it, they are the bad guy. Got it. More of that jacked-up logic. FFS. :/
The F bomb came the moment you were booted. So the ban stays.
Unjust administrative action is often not met with a smile and, "thank you sir, can I have another?!?!?". I'm fine with the ban staying - that's your prerogative, but the bomb was absolutely well deserved in the context of the situation - and you know it.
You come to our server, you follow our rules.
Yeah - we see how well that works out too.
You do realize you are mostly playing against Americans in the red team right? Don't think I ever saw an Iraqi here.
I'm pretty sure you don't have any idea where most of your players come from. More of them are international than you realize. When is the last time you bothered to look at the stats page?
On a serious note, maybe you should pay VA a visit for PTSD or something that makes you taking a game too seriously.
Sorry that you cannot understand or appreciate principle - but that's your issue to deal with, not mine. As far as handing out advice on "not taking the game too seriously" - if that isn't the pot calling the kettle black, then I don't know what is, Mr. QuickKick & "firmly enforce the rules". It is also quite safe to assume that you have no background to be making diagnosis and giving medical advice - since you clearly cannot tell the difference between PTSD and principle. But again - I relented and since that day will play red when switched - so maybe you can get off that already? However I will not switch teams just because a couple of players got tired of me kicking their asses.
You were obviously wrong in your claim about seeing me standing in main doing nothing. I didn't even spawn so I could ghost you. I saw what you did and I deemed them disruptive.
Obviously wrong? Absolutely not! I stood right in front of you more than a few times, staring at your idled player - so do not try to tell me what I did not see. You might have DC'ed & ghosted afterwards - but you absolutely stood still there for an extended period of time... as did a couple of other players. Only when I tried to go around one of them with the BMP did he suddenly come to life and intentionally try to block me from getting into the corner and/or get me to run over him. He eventually got his wish - and you booted me for it... but you didn't bother to ghost me prior to his death so you could see all that and then practically shove himself under my tread, didya?

I might also add that you often incorrectly deem things that players do as disruptive. I have watched you boot players countless times without genuine grounds for doing so, or due to an incomplete situational observation... or for no other reason than you simply didn't like what they were/were not doing (having no basis within the rules), and even for only having killed you or certain other players with a legit shot. Back again to "taking the game too seriously". You very often quickly take action without having an understanding or observation of what has actually just transpired. Truth be told - by such rampant, excessive actions it probably makes you one of the most disruptive players on the game when you are around. Things flow a lot smoother when you are not.
I understand some players have issues with my administrating style. I do tend to enforce the rules more firmly than other admins, but never abused my power. All my actions are explained if challenged. It will continue to be that way.
Your dismissive nature of events like what I quoted above ("I deemed it disruptive") does not even remotely qualify as an explanation - in sharp contrast to my play-by-play explanation of the events as they occurred. In fact it opens up a gaping hole of opportunity for abuse, excessive and underinformed conduct on your part. In short - it's a cheap, broad, all-encompassing load of crap, and I am not afraid to call a spade a spade.
kilgore wrote:I see the SA3 and MLRS both getting kills, so make my long journey around the lakes on the east side of the map [...] I then look at where the MLRS is usually firing from and don't see it in the open - I think it might be behind a building - the wood one or hangar.
It never occurred to you in the few minutes it takes to make that journey that whoever was firing the MLRS (that you claimed you saw the kills from) might have gotten killed, respawned and was trying to trek out of the main (again) to use the MLRS again? When I called you out for the illegit kill you claimed right then and there that you saw me firing AND you said that you saw the kill text scroll by. While one was an outright lie (you now admit that you weren't even in the proximity in order to see it - if I were in the main OR where I said I was to the north of main by the ponds) - it's also quite convenient that you saw my kill but not my death... but yeah I can see how that would happen. Understand though that I was only pissed because you had violated the written rules regarding attacking non-firing equipment. Since it has now been explained that the written rules do not matter - then the point is moot, despite the fact that your false claim of having seen me fire from the main would have actually put you within the scope of the rules as they are written.

With that being said - I leave that end of it alone, as it is now an administrative matter regarding written & unwritten rules.

This end, however - requires addressing:
Someone asked why i was hiding there (not sawyer - I don't recall who it was - someone that plays often if I recall). I laughed and said i was hunting SA3's and MLRS's. They seemed agitated, but unlike sawyers skewed recollection, i was "hiding", not "firing", according to this person, and I had yet to fire a round.
Their agitation stemmed from their having said you were FIRING... and yes - that is the word that was used. Whether you did or not - I don't know. If you did the rounds didn't land anywhere near me. That's all I know. However - that is specifically WHY I noticed the comment and I was just about to change direction and go looking for you when you got me. In the process of my death-flight I saw exactly where you were, 2/3rds the way up the far east end of the hill. I had just come into your field of view and you got me with a single, good shot.
If you think otherwise, that's great....you are entitled to your thoughts. If you have seen me hitting uncaps regularly then you'd have every right to bitch. [...] But acting like it was constantly occurring was being infantile.
This was never an issue and I never made any mention of something along the lines of it "constantly occurring". If you saw words to that effect - then they were someone else's, and perhaps they have a legit complaint too. The only issue I had with you was that you fired at non-firing equipment in main, as per the written rules - and I'd appreciate you laying off the fiction.
The only thing I ever recall about you on the server is that you have some kind of issue with someone, you spam chat about something
When people break (written) rules or cause disruptive play - yes, I call them out on it and publicly so. On most servers it is the common, accepted methodology used to get admin attention to the issue. At EA117 it has the opposite effect, however... getting you jumped on by multiple players and batted around by an admin like a cat toy... so... yeah - that makes sense. :/
Whe or you push your real world issues onto a bunch of people that just come on here to have fun, unwind, or kill time - but most don't know or care about what everyone else is there for.
2 people responded to my call-out of your kill by telling me to switch to red. How those two things are related I will never understand... it is rather nonsensical. When I told them I don't play red I got the response of "Oh - you're one of those." They opened the door with that comment - so I tried to explain it... buuuuut of course that wasn't good enough either and people took the opportunity to instead give me a case of the ass about it - including you, I might add. If you don't give a shit then don't comment and don't give grief. Simple logic. Not rocket science.
If the thought of playing as some imaginary enemy in an imaginary GAME causes you so much anxiety, I'm guessing you probably shouldn't be playing FPS type games at all. Or maybe you should play against the bots offline - you can slaughter "Iraqi's" all day and night, nobody cares what team you are on and nobody breaks the rules.
I'm going to respond to you the same as I did Reyalp - neither of you posses the position, qualifications, background or intelligence to be making diagnosis or issuing medical or mental advice, so kindly refrain.


Thanks for the dialogue on this... I look forward to coming back in a couple more days and having fun again & maybe this (and some of the other bullshit I and others have mentioned in other threads) can be put where it belongs, Reyalp can take his own advice and chilldownandnothaveakitten and the written rules will reflect the actual rules instead of us having to try and guess what they are that day.

Hasta.

Image Image

User avatar
Trench
Admin
Admin
Posts: 1570
Joined: Tue May 22, 2012 3:19 am
Location: Dallas / Fort Worth
Contact:
United States of America

Re: BS is getting real old...

Post by Trench » Mon Apr 25, 2016 10:34 am

The manner in which the situation was dealt with was appropriate from my perspective as well.

No, you don't have carte blanche to just fire into main killing people or equipment. But that's not what happened here. You were firing the MLRS from just outside of main; enemy came looking around main for where the MLRS was; enemy found occupied MLRS and killed it.

If you had approached red main in order to kill the SCUD, you would have expected the same consideration of "I was there to kill the SCUD" regardless of whether during your travel time the previous occupant had left and/or someone new had entered the SCUD and it hadn't fired out yet.

And you would be right to expect that consideration. That's the same common sense consideration we're giving Kilgore here, too.

None of which has anything to do with your ban, since that was all personal behavior and not gameplay-related.

Note this is also not the place to be making derogatory comments based on race or religion, either. We're here having fun playing a game with friends and players from around the world.

-Trench

KI Sawyer AFB
Member
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2014 12:13 pm

Re: BS is getting real old...

Post by KI Sawyer AFB » Mon Apr 25, 2016 10:49 am

Trench wrote:If you had approached red main in order to kill the SCUD, you would have expected the same consideration of "I was there to kill the SCUD" regardless of whether during your travel time the previous occupant had left and/or someone new had entered the SCUD and it hadn't fired out yet.
Ok - so by that same criteria if I get popped by a tank that is in main, I can respawn clear across the map, take seconds or minutes to traverse the map & ignore kill and death logs while doing so, and attack the tank in the main - ignoring any deaths, tank movements or respawns that have occurred regarding that tank and player in between.

You do realize that's nonsense, right? But - it appears this is allowed by your explanation... so - I will remember that. Thanks.
None of which has anything to do with your ban, since that was all personal behavior and not gameplay-related.
The behaviour itself was indeed gameplay related - and related to the behaviour of the other players themselves. I call out a violation, I get roasted for it by players and administrative action for stating my case. That's bullshit - any way you slice it.

User avatar
pistol
Member
Posts: 86
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2011 7:34 pm

Re: BS is getting real old...

Post by pistol » Mon Apr 25, 2016 1:07 pm

KI Sawyer AFB wrote: I think it is bullshit - especially if someone has 1st-hand, very personal and stomach-sickening reservations of being associated with & force to play on the side of the very forces they fought against
brah, other veterans here too. If you got issues with this you probably shouldn't be playing this game to begin with. It ain't gonna help.

KI Sawyer AFB
Member
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2014 12:13 pm

Re: BS is getting real old...

Post by KI Sawyer AFB » Mon Apr 25, 2016 1:29 pm

pistol wrote:brah, other veterans here too. If you got issues with this you probably shouldn't be playing this game to begin with. It ain't gonna help.
I swear it's like a record with a bad skip.... 3rd one now - count my response as being the same as the previous 2. Less typing that way.

Additionally - you would be surprised to know exactly how "therapeutic" it actually is.

User avatar
Sarge 1/68th Armor
EA 117's Smart Ass, Hooah!!
Posts: 2384
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2010 5:34 pm
Location: Cedar City, Utah
United States of America

Re: BS is getting real old...

Post by Sarge 1/68th Armor » Mon Apr 25, 2016 2:24 pm

Nice read. SFB
Perma ban is on the horizon? Just a game. Mission Over, exhale.
'Silver Lions" 1st Battalion, 68th Armor Regiment, 8th Infantry Division/
SFC. TANK CDR. M1A1....HUA!

With Great Speed

KI Sawyer AFB
Member
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2014 12:13 pm

Re: BS is getting real old...

Post by KI Sawyer AFB » Mon Apr 25, 2016 3:03 pm

Sarge 1/68th Armor wrote:Nice read. SFB. Perma ban is on the horizon?
Really? Wasn't it you who specifically said they liked "fully packed & well documented" accounts of situations? Welp - you wanted, you got it, bucko - all the freakin detail you could ever want. Don't go crying foul now just because it swiss-cheeses your hard-on for poorly crafted fairy tales posted by others. If it bothers you that much, you are free to CTFC as this has about as much to do with you as what I had for breakfast. Speaking of which - how's that Wi-jacking coming along?

S.O.S
Server Admin
Server Admin
Posts: 494
Joined: Fri May 22, 2009 11:41 pm

Re: BS is getting real old...

Post by S.O.S » Mon Apr 25, 2016 4:30 pm

At issue here is not the "unwritten rule" but I'll take the occasion to clarify it. It's true what I've explained, and Trench added, is not clearly written in the rules section. But that's what we have been following for years. It has never been an problem so it was not put down. Due to the long range nature of SA and arty, they are treated differently from other equipment in uncap main and that's not contradictory to what's posted. Maybe we should do another update on the rules but we have been consistent on enforcing them. Nothing made up just for the sake of an argument.

You are entitled to argue with other players when you think they did something wrong. However, you should also restrain yourself and follow admin's request when the chatting is going out of hands and is affecting the gameplay. Foul language is not welcomed here. Can't control yourself, go take a break.

kilgore
Member
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2015 10:45 pm

Re: BS is getting real old...

Post by kilgore » Mon Apr 25, 2016 5:54 pm

Lets clarify:
"When I called you out for the illegit kill you claimed right then and there that you saw me firing AND you said that you saw the kill text scroll by."
I said I had seen the MLRS get a kill. I didn't see who...I saw a red guy die by MLRS, then it was gone. I was busy avoiding death from above so didn't go scroll through previous messages to see who had gotten that kill. I NEVER said i saw you firing out. You are not correct on that.

"Their agitation stemmed from their having said you were FIRING... and yes - that is the word that was used. "

I wish I could remember who first saw me "hiding" so he can be asked. He said "Kilgore, why you hiding above/behind our main" (above or behind I don't recall....but he said HIDING). I even had the thought of pointing out there are no rules against hiding anywhere....but again, busy not dying. I don't randomly fire into mains. I will wait until I see someone fire out...at me or elsewhere. When I saw you in the MLRS, I assumed you had been there all along. With a tank coming after me I fired and moved on....I'm sure you never fired in the heat of the moment THEN thought about it after.

If you had said "WTF Kilgore, why you killing me in the main" and I responded "I was after the MLRS that I had seen get a kill", (kinda what happened so far) then you could have said it wasn't you...you just got there (instead of popping off) I would have apologized and felt bad that I had taken one of your ever replenishing lives in the game....and all this bullshit never would have had to happen. You have a big chip on your shoulder and a sneeze seems to blow it off. If someone breaks a rule now and then, and it's possible it was by accident, I don't say shit to them. It happens. TKs, main rapes...hell, i've been one of the many that starts pounding the hell out of an uncap and then realizes that the admins slipped a CQ map in where a CTF used to be...then i feel like a dick and apologize....and now I really pay attention to that.

IT'S a GAME!!! I didn't actually kill you or blow up your truck. The dicks that really do those things consistently get kicked or banned. Sometimes not right away, but they do.

Don't respond. I'm not going to read this anymore and I'm not in the mood to correct your misinterpretations of what happened. I'm not calling you a liar (as you have called me since the opening shit), I'm just saying we saw events differently because we both saw it from different points of view to start.

Try not to be a dick and people won't care if you play or don't. And you won't get kicked.

I had an issue with SOS one night...but stupidly I was drinking and popped off instead of letting it go, or discussing it calmly. I got kicked for a minute, not a vacation, and remembered what it was like trying to play and make the other 2 dozen dumbasses on there with me happy. (No offense to the 2 dozen non-dumbasses on there ;) ) I have a question for you Sawyer? Ever had to admin a game server? I did it for 5 years. It sucks. I told the guys that invited me back then that I wasn't interested any more when they came to this server. It's thankless, you are never right no matter what. It's like an NFL ref....make 99 perfect calls and nobody notices. Miss one call and everyone is up in your shit. If 60% of the people agree with you then you are having a good day. You hardly get to play, you have to be watching both sides at once. And then deal with Bullshit in here on an hourly basis. And you can't not respond in the forums...it's part of the job you are getting paid to do. So give an admin a break - or just kill your fellow tank whore :)

I'm done. End this thread. Play. Laugh at stupidity. And chill.

User avatar
pistol
Member
Posts: 86
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2011 7:34 pm

Re: BS is getting real old...

Post by pistol » Mon Apr 25, 2016 6:26 pm

Agree with Kilgore.

SOS booted me one night too for an accidental TK I believe. Just a misunderstanding, but instead of using profanity and/or ignoring admins requests I came on here and explained it. Was back playing the next evening I believe.

KI Sawyer AFB
Member
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2014 12:13 pm

Re: BS is getting real old...

Post by KI Sawyer AFB » Mon Apr 25, 2016 8:20 pm

S.O.S wrote:At issue here is not the "unwritten rule" but I'll take the occasion to clarify it. It's true what I've explained, and Trench added, is not clearly written in the rules section. But that's what we have been following for years. It has never been an problem so it was not put down. Due to the long range nature of SA and arty, they are treated differently from other equipment in uncap main and that's not contradictory to what's posted.
Yeah, I know they are handled differently - and even that statement is written in the rules. However - I must again say that if it were written in the rules then when I got popped while in the main I would not have gotten bent out of shape about it & called foul & rule vio.... so sorry, but I do feel that it is indeed "at issue here." Had it been documented accordingly - just as the SA3 exception is - this entire dialogue would not be taking place.
Maybe we should do another update on the rules
Which is something I have suggested quite a while ago in this thread.
but we have been consistent on enforcing them. Nothing made up just for the sake of an argument.
Consistent enforcement is all well and good when there is a written policy to back it up. Otherwise it does in fact appear as being made up or conditional. This is precisely the situation that rules & policies in all walks of life - gaming included - are created. Then there is no misinterpretation and no dispute as to what the rules are.
You are entitled to argue with other players when you think they did something wrong. However, you should also restrain yourself and follow admin's request when the chatting is going out of hands and is affecting the gameplay.
Duly noted and will certainly try to quell that... but at the same time - when someone feels like they have been wronged and they have policy (or lack thereof) to back it up - not many people are going to respond positively when they are just being dismissed or jumped on. Just something to consider.
Foul language is not welcomed here.
That is a whole other issue that just doesn't make sense.... and while I can certainly debate it here in the forum, I do know that it is in the rules. The part that is the most ironic is the language in the rules that is something along the lines of "we want a nice, family-friendly environment here" or some such.

Uh huh.... bombs, guns, knifings, blood, blowing people up, war, WMDs, running people over, shooting them out of the sky, missiles & rockets... death & killing... murder. Yeup... real nice wholesome, family-friendly & family values stuff. :31: :31: :31: If people are playing things like 41, DC, FB3/4, CS, etc to be "family friendly" - a little harsh language is the least of anyone's concerns... LOL :31:

There are also other things "at issue here" which I have mentioned earlier in the thread... but true to form those are conveniently dismissed. Well - at least in that regard you are nothing if not consistent. :8:
Last edited by KI Sawyer AFB on Mon Apr 25, 2016 9:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.

KI Sawyer AFB
Member
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2014 12:13 pm

Re: BS is getting real old...

Post by KI Sawyer AFB » Mon Apr 25, 2016 9:17 pm

kilgore wrote:I NEVER said i saw you firing out. You are not correct on that.
I'm going to disagree here. You told me you had seen me kill with the MLRS... and you were correct about that. But it was about 2 minutes earlier while I was well outside the main and before both me and the MLRS got blown up.
I wish I could remember who first saw me "hiding" so he can be asked. He said "Kilgore, why you hiding above/behind our main" (above or behind I don't recall....but he said HIDING).
We are going to disagree here too. He said shooting or killing in our main from behind. Had it only been hiding - I was already on another mission and I would have left it for someone else to tend to - but again the entire reason I noticed is because of the verbiage used and I thought to myself, "oh hell no".
I don't randomly fire into mains. I will wait until I see someone fire out...at me or elsewhere.
That "wait til I see" would have been a nice criteria to use in this instance, no? I am sure you do not fire randomly into mains... and I even said I did not observe you shooting (as no incoming fire landed around me)... but all I had to go on was what the other player said - and that alone is what got my attention. Otherwise I had no idea you were even out there.
When I saw you in the MLRS, I assumed you had been there all along.
You know what they say.... ASS U ME. And here we are.... me included. :/
I'm sure you never fired in the heat of the moment THEN thought about it after.
Of course I have. The fact that you did it wasn't what bothered me so much as your claim afterwards when I called you out on it that I had been firing & killing from main and that it was your justification for shooting me. With that statement - it sounds like you too were under the impression from the written rules that you could not attack an MLRS in the main unless it was shooting out. Sooo... it looks like there is probably even more reason for further clarification in writing of what the rule regarding that actually is.
If you had said "WTF Kilgore, why you killing me in the main" and I responded "I was after the MLRS that I had seen get a kill", (kinda what happened so far) then you could have said it wasn't you...you just got there
Here is the problem with that... as I stated earlier - it actually WAS me in the MLRS that had gotten the kill. But from a previous life and in a completely different location, minutes before. I am not in the habit of lying - so I explained that it was from previous spawn, minutes before and outside of main and that you were shooting at an MLRS that wasn't shooting out of main. You and I went back and forth repeatedly on that point because you insisted multiple times that I actually HAD been doing it from within the main. The icing on the cake is when others started bandwagoning on it too - even though they were clear across the map for both of my deaths and had an ever lesser grasp of the reality of the situation than you did at the time. That certainly didn't help things much - and yeah, that is what led to me "popping off"... because as much of a principle as I might have about not playing red - I have an even larger one about people who (appear to be) lying and others who are ignoring the (written) rules of gameplay.

I will never, ever apologize for being a principled & a black/white absolutionist of a person... but I will apologize for the way it manifests itself sometimes - including in online gameplay, as it did in this instance.
and all this bullshit never would have had to happen.
No... I am not going to hang that you & the apology or what I should/shouldn't have done... I am going to cast that one all the way back to the written rules. The end result absolutely is not your fault & doing. Had the written & enforced rules regarding attacking mains been clear regarding the MLRS - that is when this bullshit would never have happened. It is interesting to me that every other circumstance of attacking a main is covered by the written rules.... but that one - the very one that you and I became engaged in - is not... and that it is apparently an unwritten rule. Again - I must say that if it is the rule - then the powers that be need to get it INTO the rules. Then there is no issue - even if those rules are slightly different from just about any other !attack.uncap DC server to have ever existed.
Don't respond. I'm not going to read this anymore
Of course I read this after typing all of the above. Well - I'm not gonna shitcan it... it still needs to be said (not to mention I have a problem when people stand on a mountaintop with their fingers in the ears and yell to the masses below), and with any luck someone will get _something_ out of all of it... and maybe the rules can get properly updated as well.
I'm just saying we saw events differently because we both saw it from different points of view to start.
That we did... however - apparently with the same point of view on the written rule.
I had an issue with SOS one night...but stupidly I was drinking and popped off instead of letting it go, or discussing it calmly.
If there is one thing I have noticed is that at least with SOS - there is no discussing it - calmly or otherwise. Ever. He has a hair-trigger for the kick/ban - and that's it. Completely the wrong way to admin any server of any type... and it never yields an opportunity to genuinely appeal to things, even post-event in the forums, as we see from the dismissiveness of his responses in the thread.
I have a question for you Sawyer? Ever had to admin a game server? I did it for 5 years. It sucks. I told the guys that invited me back then that I wasn't interested any more when they came to this server. It's thankless, you are never right no matter what.
As a matter of fact I have adminned many servers. In the early 90s I adminned JediMUD, Land Of Chaos MUD and Ensem MUD. I was also a sysop on ISCA BBS - which was by every respect the largest internet BBS on the planet and was a project started by the U-Iowa Student Computing Association which paved the way for what became social media as we know it today. Later I ran both the S9 and MV Counter-strike servers and then the S9 and MV DC servers. I was a wikipedia admin for a while and currently admin a few AFB FB pages as well as one of the largest global military appreciation FB pages with over 55,000 members. By every notion - each of those roles was filled with challenges when dealing with users and issues - and In many respects you are right - it is thankless and in some respects it certainly sucks and it is extremely challenging to be right in everyone's eyes.

While that is never an attainable goal - one can get _just_ a little bit closer to it by not being quick & heavy on the kick & ban button - and also ensuring that you at least try to get a complete understanding of the situation before executing actions. The majority of the admins on here do so... and do a pretty good job of it. One in particular however leaves much to be desired and seriously needs to be reeled in. Again - I am not the first person to mention it - not by a long shot, and the fact that the details of the mentionings are practically identical is a very telling sign that something there is seriously wrong. These kinds of complaints do not exist regarding any other admin... not one.

There is a message in all that... perhaps some day it will actually be heard.


Again - thanks for the dialogue.

User avatar
Sarge 1/68th Armor
EA 117's Smart Ass, Hooah!!
Posts: 2384
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2010 5:34 pm
Location: Cedar City, Utah
United States of America

Re: BS is getting real old...

Post by Sarge 1/68th Armor » Tue Apr 26, 2016 6:40 am

OMG. Lock thread, oh men in black.
'Silver Lions" 1st Battalion, 68th Armor Regiment, 8th Infantry Division/
SFC. TANK CDR. M1A1....HUA!

With Great Speed

User avatar
fluffy
Member
Posts: 121
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2011 8:58 pm

Re: BS is getting real old...

Post by fluffy » Tue Apr 26, 2016 11:51 am

i like kittens...

User avatar
pistol
Member
Posts: 86
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2011 7:34 pm

Re: BS is getting real old...

Post by pistol » Tue Apr 26, 2016 12:07 pm

fluffy wrote:i like kittens...
+1. This.

KI Sawyer AFB
Member
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2014 12:13 pm

Re: BS is getting real old...

Post by KI Sawyer AFB » Tue Apr 26, 2016 1:47 pm

Image

User avatar
fromage
Member
Posts: 453
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2011 3:43 pm

Re: BS is getting real old...

Post by fromage » Tue Apr 26, 2016 8:06 pm

KI Sawyer AFB wrote:swiss-cheeses
Planes, tanks, warfare, SWISS CHEESES & cats. I believe you've come to the right place. ;)

/end thread.

Locked