Allow me to offer my experience to any questions you have..

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Re: Allow me to offer my experience to any questions you hav

Post by Tuck » Thu Aug 09, 2012 10:15 am

Sarge wrote:You wish I was leaking, stop looking at your penis. I'm running 50 for the heat. My girl gets 20/40 all the time. 234,000 miles and no leaks, she just sweats.

I thought only fat girls sweated over sage...learn sumthin new everyday :? :?
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Re: Allow me to offer my experience to any questions you hav

Post by toolman » Thu Aug 09, 2012 10:19 am

:D :D :D :D :D
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Re: Allow me to offer my experience to any questions you hav

Post by toolman » Thu Aug 09, 2012 10:20 am

OK FINE THEN>>>>>>>>>>>>>


Based on what you have said thus far sarge I would lean towards a "minimalist" approach....as in throw in a little cam, lifters, timing chain and go with a better intake manifold. I don't read that your planning on doing anything more with it than what you have already done...some towing and lots of normal driving. While 200,000 + miles seems like alot I personally know of plenty of those 350's that have much more miles than that on them.

Start by doing a compression test on the cylinders. If they are ALL checking out fine then I would would not spend a dime on the lower half of the engine....unless of course MPG is not an issue and going really fast is.

If you (or someone you know) is a good engine builder then I personally would put all my time/money in the heads and valve-train. You can get tons of extra power and possibly keep or improve your MPG.

I am just going to assume that this is a engine with a carburetor since you did did not specify....here is my list of things I would do and the parts needed.

1)Mild camshaft AND lifters. Commonly known as a "RV" or "marine" cam but you will want yo know your actual cam specs to know you only move up in right places, and not too much.

2)Timing chain. Don't waste money on double roller, just get US made replacement.

3) Intake manifold. Forget high rise unless you want to cut things. You should be able to find a used one for real cheap...but realize that either way your going to be messing with vacuum lines and EGR's and even linkage. Aluminum intakes are great upgrades as long as your fasteners and gaskets are high quality.

4) Get a valve re-grind. If you know how to do this it's just a couple cheap tools and some elbow grease...but it's work for sure. Might spend couple hundred to send them out to a machine shop and have them regrind or replace the valve seats if they are worn and they will come back ready to install. The reason I recommend this is two fold. A) The 350 typically has a butterfly style seal over the keepers (they hold the valves in the spring) and these are known to wear out and leak. B) That many miles means you have build up for sure, which is power lost if leaking.

You will need a head gasket "kit" that should have most everything you need. I use fel-pro gaskets. I ONLY use fel-pro on that kind of job. You will possibly also want to replace all of your intake bolts and maybe some exhaust manifold bolts.

Also figure in cap,rotor, wires, spark plugs and maybe even a water pump since your taking it off anyway, not to mention any vacuum hoses, linkage, fuel lines, filters that have to be modified/replaced while removing the top half of the engine.

I did not address your "gasoline delivery system" since I don't know if you have a carb or it's fuel injected, or if it's a bastard carb that uses sensors to run right.

I would charge you a 18 pack to yank it all out with your help in a proper shop, and probably +24 beers to get it back together properly. Ask around couple places (mechanics/ quality car repair shops) and find out who the local machine shops are, then call and get some quotes.
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Re: Allow me to offer my experience to any questions you hav

Post by Nightstalker » Thu Aug 09, 2012 10:44 am

Hey Tool .. his burban is the same as mine. Its a TBI ;)

What happened to Cmon Son's post?
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Re: Allow me to offer my experience to any questions you hav

Post by C'mon Son » Thu Aug 09, 2012 5:05 pm

NOBODY LUVS ME :?: :?:

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Re: Allow me to offer my experience to any questions you hav

Post by Sarge 1/68th Armor » Fri Aug 10, 2012 8:43 am

Hey Thanks Toolie. I can do all the work myself. Before I became Sarge I was mechanic on a race boat crew. I was going to do a straight rebuild on the 350 with the Eddlebrock Preformer stuff cam, chain, intake, etc...but when I heard about making it a Stroker ( not that way Nighty) I was just wondering. So far the 350 is tinght and no leaks. I was trying to get a litte more power ot of it for the moutain runs with a 6000 lbs trailer. Like NS said TBI. I was also considering throwing in 4.11s or a under/over set up.....ideas?
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Re: Allow me to offer my experience to any questions you hav

Post by toolman » Sat Aug 11, 2012 6:11 am

While a stroker does add more power the cost vs benefit is probably not worth what you are going to use it for. Not to mention that you probably want to just run pump gas using the 87 octane. Putting your money and work into the upper half will bring that puppy back to life and most likely IMPROVE your MPG over what you have now.

Honestly with a big ole fat suburban used for towing in mountains I would be more inclined to go with a 454 (or some big block) rather than put a ton of work sprucing and stroking up a entire mouse motor...you can get much more of the low end power and still run lower grade gas, not to mention that a big block was available in suburbans so swapping out is not a huge headache. On the flip side Big block parts are typically 2x the cost of SBC parts.

Gearing....this is where it's truly at. First thing to do is establish what rear axle is in it. Depending on year it could be anything from a Dana 44 to a GM 14 bolt. if my memory serves me correctly there are a few models of the suburban that had some turd rear ends in them. I don't know the exact years but I worked with a guy that had one and he had to replace diff carrier a couple times because the cross pin was wearing out. Do some searching and if yours falls into this window of turds swap the damn thing out.

You should be able to establish your current ratio from the tag on the rear end..maybe. If your keeping your tire size the same and just want a little more pull then just move up 1 ratio....for example if your current gearing is 3.73 you could go to 3.93 or 4.10 and still keep your RPM's in a usable range for power and MPG. Making a drastic move from current ratio will affect things more dramatically and most likely be counterproductive.

If you have never done gears it's not rocket science but it is a advanced level precision job that needs to be done correctly. Have a reputable shop do the work if needed and use US made Dana/Spicer brand ring and pinion. The Chinese gears are junk. Do a proper "break-in" on the gears.... and pull the cover and clean out everything real good when you change the fluid for the first time and it should last 500,000 miles or more.

I will say that I would do the engine stuff before the gearing so that you don't over-gear. I've towed 6,000 lbs numerous times. It's quite taxing on your "A" typical V-8 small-block engine. Suburbans are nice platforms for the job but they are also big fat pigs in themselves so power is lost right from the start. Might also look into adding a "chip" or a computer tweaking type set-up will let you change things like shift points on your transmission, or increase for towing type stuff since you have TBI. Squeezing everything out of that engine will let you know if re-gearing is your next best option.

Truth be told I don't ever see you towing +6,000 lbs at 75mph uphill in those mountains unless you have a diesel.

If once you start tearing into this you want to start a thread I would be happy to walk you though/give my .02 cents along the way. You know how to take pictures right??? :o

I've done a bunch of towing and have learned a bunch along the way. I can't drive my jeep to all it's destinations..so I use the wifes Jeep instead. ;)

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Re: Allow me to offer my experience to any questions you hav

Post by Sarge 1/68th Armor » Mon Sep 03, 2012 6:55 pm

Well Tooly. I'm staying with the SB 350. I found a long block 4 bolt main here for a $100.00. Going to tear it down and do a complete overhaul with the crap you had mentioned. I'll do the valves and headwork at home. When I start it I'll have myt wife take the pics. (since you pointed out I can't use a camera!) :D
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Re: Allow me to offer my experience to any questions you hav

Post by OddJob2021 » Tue Sep 04, 2012 10:38 am

Sarge wrote:Well Tooly. I'm staying with the SB 350. I found a long block 4 bolt main here for a $100.00. Going to tear it down and do a complete overhaul with the crap you had mentioned. I'll do the valves and headwork at home. When I start it I'll have myt wife take the pics. (since you pointed out I can't use a camera!) :D
Sounds like fun Sarge. 4 bolt main huh? on a V8? For $100 lol, damn what a deal! Yeah what Tim said about the valves is dead on. It's an easy way to increase VE. You'll do the machining yourself? I would be too scared to screw something up lol. By doing the headwork you can also increase your rev limit if your bottom end can take it. But if you really need pulling power it's torque you want and there's no better torque machine than a turbocharger ;)
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Re: Allow me to offer my experience to any questions you hav

Post by Sarge 1/68th Armor » Tue Sep 04, 2012 11:33 am

Yeah right....Turbocharger. I don't know about you, but I don't crap money!! just peanuts and corn sometimes. :D For my torque issues I'm going with (maybe) flat top pistons. You can do the valve lapping at home its easy, even Nighty could do it! http://www.v6z24.com/howto/valvelapping. Unless you want to donate a turbo system ( I will gladly take pics of the install) it'll just be a boring rebuild ;)
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Re: Allow me to offer my experience to any questions you hav

Post by toolman » Fri Sep 07, 2012 9:15 pm

lapping is easy, much like honing....trick is knowing the difference between just a simple job and one that requires more work and advanced tools to get job done correctly. :31:

Valve seats are made of a hardened steel..unless it comes from a pre-leaded fuel engine...so you better have a good base to actually seat that valve. Exhaust valves can burn out leading to a leak when the engine is sucking fuel in...which leads to power loss. Honing and boring engine cylinders are 2 different things, lapping and grinding valves also different.

A 4 bolt main SBC is a damn fine engine. I have driven more than 1 turbocharged chevy V-8...but it is either a ton of cash to buy, or an bunch of cash and skills to work right.

That should be a excellent choice for what you want Sarge, once you get that engine dialed in make sure your gearing tackles the hills without too much pain to the trans, and should be in good shape for long time with routine maintenance. :)
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Re: Allow me to offer my experience to any questions you hav

Post by Nightstalker » Fri Sep 07, 2012 11:39 pm

That burban should have the 4l80e tranny in it so it would have been considered the "heavy" duty model for those years. It was the same that was put in with the diesel motors. So you should be fine with what you are doing. Not saying it wouldnt hurt to go through it if you pull the motor/trans together when you do the swap.

I had the 4l60 in mine and we had to have it rebuilt once around 180k which is kind of sad considering we never had a huge load on the thing.
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Re: Allow me to offer my experience to any questions you hav

Post by Sarge 1/68th Armor » Sat Sep 08, 2012 12:01 pm

Thanks guys for the info. This fella is selling me the 350 and a engine stand for $140.00. He just has too many around his garage and took oity on me...lol. Nighty the trans is the 4L80E and it is new as of last year. I'm gong with the flat top pistons which should give a lillte more HP and torque, still keeping my mileage the same. 'm picking it up this week and will be posting for donations :D
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Re: Allow me to offer my experience to any questions you hav

Post by Sarge 1/68th Armor » Wed Sep 26, 2012 7:28 pm

Hey Tool. Whats your or anyones out there opinion,except NS :D on doing a swap of the 350 for a 6.2 or 6.5 diesel? Was just reading up on it and was wondering if there is any benifits to it. It should mate right up to the trans and slight modification??
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Re: Allow me to offer my experience to any questions you hav

Post by toolman » Thu Sep 27, 2012 6:41 am

Sarge wrote:Hey Tool. Whats your or anyones out there opinion,except NS :D on doing a swap of the 350 for a 6.2 or 6.5 diesel? Was just reading up on it and was wondering if there is any benifits to it. It should mate right up to the trans and slight modification??
I love diesels....but while I'm pretty sure they were available in the burb I'm guessing that you are going to need to change the motor mount brackets from the frame. Could be an adapter but it's something I would consider finding out for sure.

big battery, new fuel pump, gas tank, few more odds and ends.
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Re: Allow me to offer my experience to any questions you hav

Post by Sarge 1/68th Armor » Thu Sep 27, 2012 4:20 pm

Thanks, but never mind. I was at the Chevy service center and one of the Master Mechs told me to stay away from the conversion. Go with what I had planned already. The new trans I put in last year is shifting hard in first and second. The shop that did the work was trying to tell me the eeprom was bad, but the dealership tested it and my whole system is fine. They think the 4L80E was shipped with a shift kit in it and know one knew it. There going to chande out the trans...score! Then I'll start on my rebuild
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