Do any of you

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Do any of you

Post by Nightstalker »

Do any of use synthetic oil in you small engines/air cooled. I have a new tiller with an OHC motor. Most of my small engines are OHV but being new and all I thought about making the switch to synthetic. Pros/cons why would you's all welcome. Currently I run Castrol HD30 in all air cooled 4 strokes.

I am running a semi synthetic as I was given a case of Lucas 2 stroke from my neighbor for my new weedeater. He has a mowing outfit and uses Amsoil 4 stroke 30/10W30 synthetic in all his stuff.
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Re: Do any of you

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Well I screwed up all together LOLOL ... When I looked at my owners manual it said to run HD30 or 10W30.
As I said earlier I normally run HD30 in ALL aircooled engines. So in my quest to find the GREATEST OIL IN THE WORLD :25: I went to the engine manufactures website. Robin/Subaru ... there it was on THIER page. 10w30 :20:

Not that running straight 30 would hurt it but I am gonna go ahead and switch it over to 10w30 just for warranty purposes. I was telling my wife and my dad the other day that ever since I changed the oil I seemed to be getting worse gas conumption. Of course my dad said I am crazy but I bet once I go back to 10w30 my consumption rate will go back the way it was.
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Re: Do any of you

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Reading is a good thing when it comes to owners manuals, unlike some of your posts which should be equipped with eye gougers....
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Re: Do any of you

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LMAO ... ya know what. I need to photoshop that sign on your birthday thread. Your not an asshole your the entire ass. Lololol
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Re: Do any of you

Post by ryeontherocks »

Hey Night i know this is an old thread but i am still curious, did you go back to a 30 weight?? Living in a colder climate than some of you guys i always assumed synthetic is great for cold starts ie: 0 W 30 and is even recommend in some cars. My sisters corolla 2009 recommends 10 w 20 and its soo thin you can't even tell how much old is on the dip stick..toyota told me its for gas savings(in there exact words) 30 weight isnt good for cold weather ie sub 50deg.
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ryeontherocks wrote:Hey Night i know this is an old thread but i am still curious, did you go back to a 30 weight?? Living in a colder climate than some of you guys i always assumed synthetic is great for cold starts ie: 0 W 30 and is even recommend in some cars. My sisters corolla 2009 recommends 10 w 20 and its soo thin you can't even tell how much old is on the dip stick..toyota told me its for gas savings(in there exact words) 30 weight isnt good for cold weather ie sub 50deg.

Hey Rye, I changed to 10w30 synthetic and will not go back mainly because of manufacture recommendation. Just to make sure you noticed I was talking about air-cooled engines namely my tiller engine. As for my car/truck I run 5w30 in the car and 10w30 in the truck. Both are the liquid dinosaur(conventional) kind not synthetic.

From the reading I have done, all (xx)w30 oils will be the same viscosity when at operating temp. The difference is how thin they are when cold. Which helps for start-up especially in climates such as the one you live in. You will not find many people that run straight 30W oil in their car. There are some and have had good luck but you need to live in the warm climates or starting the engine would be ROUGH if possible not to mention one of the worst times for lubrication on an engine is at start up due to oil starvation. That is why 0w30 and 5w30 are more commonly used up north.

As for the synthetic vs dino oil. That is an arguement all in itself. I think it is more important to make sure you change it REGULARLY. Not because the oil wears out but to get rid of any contaminents. The difference I have heard about synthetic vs conventional is they say dino oil molecules are like comparing marbles,golfballs, baseballs, and basketballs all mixed together. So uneven pressures, lubrication and heat distribution. Synthetic is all golfballs so they claim it is superior in the previous mentioned earlier.

I know a few guys that use what ever is on sale but change regularly and have gotten over 300,000 miles on a few vehicles. So use what makes you happy as long as it is within manufacture recommendations just change it regularly. My .02
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Re: Do any of you

Post by ryeontherocks »

Ok Night, I guess i mixed my post up a bit...dang ADD, I know most guys that know more than me tell me that the conversation of how often you change is more important than which type unless you have a hypo like Odd jobs, its not a secret that synthetic stuff is better buts its still a lot more.

I dont know if i am off base base but outside of manufacturers suggestions i am curious about what I have is about 6 or 7 small air cooled motors that are most 7-8 years old++ ie: vibrating earth pounder, pressure washers, snow blowers, lawn mowers, some require non detergent motor oil, I dont know if synthetic has detergent?? or should i stick with the tried and tested small motor oil i use??
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Re: Do any of you

Post by OddJob2021 »

Nightstalker wrote:
ryeontherocks wrote:Hey Night i know this is an old thread but i am still curious, did you go back to a 30 weight?? Living in a colder climate than some of you guys i always assumed synthetic is great for cold starts ie: 0 W 30 and is even recommend in some cars. My sisters corolla 2009 recommends 10 w 20 and its soo thin you can't even tell how much old is on the dip stick..toyota told me its for gas savings(in there exact words) 30 weight isnt good for cold weather ie sub 50deg.

Hey Rye, I changed to 10w30 synthetic and will not go back mainly because of manufacture recommendation. Just to make sure you noticed I was talking about air-cooled engines namely my tiller engine. As for my car/truck I run 5w30 in the car and 10w30 in the truck. Both are the liquid dinosaur(conventional) kind not synthetic.

From the reading I have done, all (xx)w30 oils will be the same viscosity when at operating temp. The difference is how thin they are when cold. Which helps for start-up especially in climates such as the one you live in. You will not find many people that run straight 30W oil in their car. There are some and have had good luck but you need to live in the warm climates or starting the engine would be ROUGH if possible not to mention one of the worst times for lubrication on an engine is at start up due to oil starvation. That is why 0w30 and 5w30 are more commonly used up north.

As for the synthetic vs dino oil. That is an arguement all in itself. I think it is more important to make sure you change it REGULARLY. Not because the oil wears out but to get rid of any contaminents. The difference I have heard about synthetic vs conventional is they say dino oil molecules are like comparing marbles,golfballs, baseballs, and basketballs all mixed together. So uneven pressures, lubrication and heat distribution. Synthetic is all golfballs so they claim it is superior in the previous mentioned earlier.

I know a few guys that use what ever is on sale but change regularly and have gotten over 300,000 miles on a few vehicles. So use what makes you happy as long as it is within manufacture recommendations just change it regularly. My .02
On the other forums I frequent (car forums) there is a system in play called reputation. Each member can either positive rep or negative rep a post. In this case Nighty, I would positive rep your post because it's well written and explains the differences between conventional and synthetic in laymens. Nice job, I agree entirely. +rep :P

FWIW, I use Motul 300v 5w40 for my beast, but that's a double-ester base racing oil and mucho $$. Ryan, since you live in Canada I would suggest a 0wXX oil and the XX be whatever the engine asks for (when under operating conditions/temp) like 20, 30, or 40.
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Re: Do any of you

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LOL .. thanks Oddjob and I should change my name to Layman as that is the only language I know LOLOLOLOL. ;)
ryeontherocks wrote:...dang ADD

You have it too. Me too but back to your oil question. My recommendation would be to .. OH LOOK A BUNNY!!!!!! :25: .. just playing. From my understanding ALL synthetics have detergents in them. Actually quite alot. So that would rule out the sythetics for those motors. In fact the only viscosity non detergent oil I can get around here is straight 30w. In those engines that you have been running NON detergent oil do NOT run any detergent oil through as it will cause any buildup to break free. If you want to swap it over to a detergent oil I would break it down and clean it out with kerosene or some type of cleaner.

I am not sure what brand of motor(s) you have on your equipment but most will recommend SAE30 above 40F, 10w30 in most conditions, etc etc. If I were you I would go to the engine manufactures website and see what they recommend. For instance Briggs and Stratton has this http://www.briggsandstratton.com/suppor ... endations/

My neighbor runs this in his equipment. http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/ase.aspx It is Amsoils oil designed for small engines. But they are proud of it if you know what I mean $$$.

Once again with these little motors, many do not have filters so change it regularly. They do not require much oil so it is not to expensive to change often. I change the oil in all my air cooled equipment once year if not twice if it gets used alot like my riding mower. ;) Hope this helps. I know some of these guys have alot more small engine powered equipment than I do so maybe they will chime in and give you their opinion.
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Re: Do any of you

Post by ryeontherocks »

Thanks I am usually careful with the cars but the little motors are only an after thought when it comes getting the better stuff....o look a bird...lmao
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Re: Do any of you

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I hear ya Rye. And that is a common thought/attitude towards the little motors. I will tell you I run Castrol 30W in everything except the tiller. It got Mobile 1 10w30. That is the first one I have ever put synthetic in. I ran the factory oil for the first 3-5 hours, changed the oil with 30w Castrol for another 5 hrs and then threw in the Mobile 1. Only reason I did the oil change so early was for a proper break in. I wanted to get any of the filings/contaminants out of the oil from the break-in period.

With the little money I have I have tried to buy quality equipment so I will not have to repair or buy new cheap stuff. Hence my concern with keeping the oil changed. I also run non-ethanol gas in the air cooled stuff so it will not effect the seals and hoses near as much. I went to the local small engine repair guy to get a rebuild kit for a carburetor and claimed he has seen more carburetor issues since we have gone to this 10% ethanol gas. The non-ethanol cost about 15-20 cents more per gallon but I might use 10-15 gallons a year so not that big of a deal.

Let us know if you see any difference on what you decide to do. ;)
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Well guys, for a follow up on the whole change to synthetic 10w30 ... it is back to normal if not better. Tilled the entire garden aside from two small spots and then broke some new ground along with a few other areas I needed to level out. I have probably 5 hours on this oil now prior to yesterday and figured this would be a good time to see if there was any difference. After doing all that I could still see the level of gas through the strainer where as before I would not do near the amount of tilling and could not see the level of gas in the tank.

On the other hand I decided to try synthetic in my wife's car and have not really noticed too much a difference in MPG and this is the second run with Mobile 1. I do not drive it that much but she is pretty good about keeping me updated on issues and checks to see what the MPG is regularly between fill ups.

So far my conclusion is yes for the tiller ... not so sure on the car. At least for a fuel consumption stand point.
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Re: Do any of you

Post by OddJob2021 »

Nightstalker wrote:...
On the other hand I decided to try synthetic in my wife's car and have not really noticed too much a difference in MPG and this is the second run with Mobile 1. I do not drive it that much but she is pretty good about keeping me updated on issues and checks to see what the MPG is regularly between fill ups.

So far my conclusion is yes for the tiller ... not so sure on the car. At least for a fuel consumption stand point.
The only way oil could net you better MPG is through frictional losses. I believe the reason most to go synthetic is the longer lasting aspect as well as it being a 'tougher' oil. As far as Mobil 1 'Synthetic' FWIW, that oil is not synthetic, well not 100% anyway. It's actually appaulling what these oil companies are allowed to get away with, calling this or that synthetic when it really is no where near the standards of a real synthetic oil.

If you'd like my opinion, the 'best bang for the buck' true synthetic oil would be Amsoil. If that's too rich for your blood Royal Purple would be the 'lowest' I'd go on a motor. It comes closer to a true synthetic. Brands like Total and Motul actually deliver full synthetic oil when they brand it that way, no need for a buff up like the run-of-the-mill oil brands. Hope this helps explain why your MPG has not really changed. For instance, Motul 300v (what I use, an expensive racing oil) guarantees at least a 2-3mpg gain (over conventional) or your money back!
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Re: Do any of you

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Hey bud, thanks for your input. I had heard that Mobile 1 had reformulated their oil and is now not a "true" synthetic. Just like Castrol Syntec and many of the other oils you will see at say Walmart. As for Royal Purple I have heard conflicting stories on it as well and heard that it is more hype than anything. More of a "gimmick" than anything. Some will say they would take M1 over RP any day. Me .. I have no idea.

Amsoil also produces a not so full synthetic .. synthetic LOL. I think it is their 7500 oil. But I may give them a shot next go around to see if I can tell a difference. I have heard nothing but good about Amsoil. One of my best friends in the service had a guy back at his home state (I know I know, my cousins sisters aunt that new this chicks brother) that sold Amsoil. He had an older Caddy that he did the whole 9 yards with Amsoil. Crankcase, tranny, rear-end, front bearings and even the fuel treatment from time to time. He also installed the duel filtration system they have. Every so many miles he would take a sample of the oil, put it in a vial and send it off to the Amsoil lab. 25,000 PLUS miles later and not ONE oil change. Amsoil told at 12,500 to change the first filter and top off. Then at 25k change both filter and top off. Last I heard he has yet to pull the drain plug on the pan.

That should have been enough for me to do all that but as you mentioned $$$$ tends to lead my decisions more than my want. Mobile 1 was chosen by me for a few reasons. Its well known as being a good oil, it is used highly in Nascar with obvious success, and many high end cars use M1 as factory fill oil.

Oh as for the Motul .. $16 + a quart ... :15: :15: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :15: :15: :15: ... I do not think so LOLOLOL ;)
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Re: Do any of you

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OIL...........sigh OK I guess I have to throw my .02 worth in... :D

I guess I should start off by stating that I am no expert on motor oil, but I have educated myself alot more than I wanted to because of my jeep. My 2004 jeep has hydraulic lifters which was common on practically every engine until the 1990's. Manufacturing tolerances and precision machining exploded during that decade and most automakers started using roller lifters to increase mpg and extend engine life. Shortly after the turn of the century motor oil companies started removing additives in oils that were not needed as a result of the higher tolerances found in modern engines. one of those additives was ZDDP.

I won't bore you with what ZDDP is and just cut to the chase...modern off the shelf oil was causing engines like mine to fail...like 30,000 and the cam is worn out fail. Old school race engine builders were having the same issues and they were actually the ones who did the research on the and found the missing link....we (jeep owners) just happened to have a engine that was designed in the 60's and was impossible to convert to a "roller" motor....besides it's a damn fine engine and we hate messing with something that isn't broken.

So here I am with a new Jeep Rubicon that I bought new and plan to keep for a loooong time....now being told horror stories about engine failures on what has been a very reliable engine that I also happen to be very familiar with...when I happen upon a guy who owns a fleet maintenance facility and is very smart and also owns a Rubicon. If you really want to know more about the thread that has taught me a crapload about oil you can find it here http://www.rubiconownersforum.com/phpbb ... 23&t=49257

and if you want to know about OIL filters....http://www.rubiconownersforum.com/phpbb ... 38&t=58887 then he knows a few things about them as well.

So what does this have to do with anything????? I guess in short do as much research as you can about what engine your working on and go from there. Climate and engine usage determines the oil weight you typically want to use, beyond that it's really kind of a judgement call based on what is "best" for you.

Dino vs syn oil can be argued til the cows come home....but application is more relevant. I have been using 5w-30 Mobil 1 in my Rubicon since it had 1,500 miles on it and I did it's first oil change. Since I educated myself I now look for that same Mobil 1 but now look for bottles that have ACEA A3 certification on the back.

I have heard/read plenty of stories about Amsoil but I'm always skeptical about companies that use salesman like they do. I do use Royal Purple gear lube in my differentials and will continue to do so, but I'm also changing it every 12,000 miles and they have expensive complicated things found only on Rubicon axles.

So if you read all the way to here congrats....sorry that I refuse to give expert advice on oil other than what I do know to be good solid advice.

1) Oil is the lifeblood of your engine, if you want to take the best possible care of it then I suggest changing it yourself (I despise jiffy lube places) and send a sample out to be analyzed at a place similar to this http://www.oaitesting.com/

2)Research, and then research some more. I don't want opinions, I want facts and test results without bias toward a brand or a company.

3)Climate. The temps in my region go from over 100 to well below 0 every year. I don't take advice about vehicle fluids from people living in San Diego.

4)Don't be fooled by gimmicks. If you think a oil is going to "fix" something knocking, or you think you need a "special" oil for one reason or another then refer to #2.

5)You will find much more info about oil on the back of the bottle than you will on the front. Oils have standards that have to be tested in order for them to be certified...which is different than "meets or exceeds"

:D
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Re: Do any of you

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because I can't help myself here is a picture of the parts that make up my rear differential...

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so yeah I'm kind of anal about things that lubricate my Jeep. :o
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Re: Do any of you

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ouch how'd u brake them i see some broken teeth
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Re: Do any of you

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Pinhead33 wrote:ouch how'd u brake them i see some broken teeth

Royal Purple gear oil. Lolol .. :P Sorry Tooly. I could not help myself. ;)

Thanks to everyone of you that gave your thoughts/facts/opinions on this. Tooly alot of my reading was done on a site called Bobistheoilguy. They really geek out on oil more than Trench does on the the topic of solar flares causing network lag. :P ;)

I am hoping no one took anything I said as fact but only as my research and opinion on what I have read and experienced myself.

Good write up Tool and I will check those sites later. Wasnt the ZDDP the stuff that the oil additive Z-MAX suppose to replace/increase. Kind of like Slick50 was boosting the teflon content???
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Re: Do any of you

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yeah that is not MY rear diff....it's another guys.

Bobistheoil guy is pretty good site....but like I said it's best to get knowledge from numerous sources, especially those more specific to your application.
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Re: Do any of you

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AMSOIL!!! 8-) Run it in everything. Has made a major difference in lawn mower, weed whacker, and most definitely in the sleds/quads. Run it in my truck as well, front to back. Tried all kinds, staying with Amsoil.
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Re: Do any of you

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Nightstalker wrote: Good write up Tool and I will check those sites later. Wasnt the ZDDP the stuff that the oil additive Z-MAX suppose to replace/increase. Kind of like Slick50 was boosting the teflon content???

Yeah the Z-max only came out recently, and the first link is kind of dry reading but it was also written in 2007, just a few years after the Rubicon model was introduced.....the engine was the last thing we figured to be a issue at all.

The 2nd link is a 5 star pictorial of cut apart oil filters. easy to see what your buying. 8-)

Funny that you bring up Slick50.....I added 1 quart when did my first change at 1,500 miles. :7:
I used to work in a auto parts store long ago and I liked the stuff....of course NOW I know it's a total waste and would never use it again.....but I always wonder if it did help during the initial break-in and has contributed to what has been the single best of the 3 I have owned.
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