Kids and pain

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BlinkofanEye
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Kids and pain

Post by BlinkofanEye »

Hey all, feel shy about posting this, as it's pretty close to my heart. Recently, I got "published" for the first time on my favorite blog. Here's the link, but I'll just post the essay below. Banged it out in a morning of feeling inspired, like the on-again, off-again you all know and love(?) I'm pretty proud of it, not so much the getting published, but putting something out there that is really, really important to me.

https://www.ianwelsh.net/what-will-it-t ... s-gardner/

What will it take to stop asking why are there school shootings? By Marcus Gardner

There was a time in my life when I believed with certainty that I was going to raise my child in a small village of other parents, single people, elders, and children. The toddlers would look up to the older boys and girls, and they to the teenagers, and they to the young singles, and so on and so forth. The kids would mostly watch each other, learning in the daily ebb and flow of successes and failures, play and conflict, that is – from my observation and experience – a far richer learning environment than any human-created institution. And, because these kids would be at home in their community nearly 24/7, they’d see what their parents did – woodwork, gardening, harvesting, fishing, and hunting wild foods, fixing technology, auto repair, counseling one another, and raising their children – these kids would naturally gravitate to what their role is, and not just in the sense of what they wanted to “be” when they grew up, but who they “are.”

Today, my wife and I are raising a toddler as nuclear parents and are trying, with no little effort, to put off sending her to school. We’re looking for the right community, or at the very least, the right kind of free school/forest kindergarten that won’t break our little girl’s spirit. While we, ourselves, try not to break her spirit, which is pretty fucking hard if you’ve ever spent much of your day with a toddler, day after day. My moral compass with regard to children is rock solid, but I can still understand how tempting it must seem – especially when you haven’t had the right training and experience – to result to shaming, to indoctrination, and, ultimately, to institutionalizing your kid, all under the guise of “it’s for their own good.” When it’s really just your own cope.

I saw a quote in Reddit the other day saying something to the effect that children are the largest oppressed class. Their concerns are not taken seriously. They’re given no meaningful way to contribute. And they get shuffled between institutions, kept occupied with busy work. I couldn’t agree more.

What I learned from all my time with kids is that you’ve got to trust them. They can’t really help but tell the truth (even if they’re lying.) Children, especially young children, don’t have the artifice that we adults have. They’re not satisfied to simply rationalize their hurt and pain – they actually want to stop it, quell it. So I listen to them, and extend myself not just beyond my own assumptions and personal convenience, but beyond our culture’s. Because this culture was not designed for the needs of children (nor for the real needs of adults, of course.) And to hear a child – to really hear them – I’ve got to question this whole crazy superstructure that we’re trying to cram our lives into.

So when my two year old daughter is giving us hell, or just being a pain in the butt and I can’t get x, y, or z done, I ask myself: why is this happening? Because, despite the “wisdom” of my baby-boomer parents (“let her cry it out,” “put her in a crib in the other room,” “teach her manners,” “stop nursing already”) I actually trust this little girl more than anyone else. She’s telling me something’s wrong.

Is it because we’re too isolated right now? Does she need more older kids to show her how to do things? People she wants to follow around and copy, instead of her parents correcting her, yet again? Does she need my wife and I to be have more integrated lives, rather than juggling work schedules and “blowing off steam” and/or working on our own projects, (projects we hide from our daughter so she doesn’t mess them up?) Does she need something more real than another day in the house with her books and toys, or another playdate at a playground designed to keep her busy?

And it’s hard. Because of course she needs all of those things, and we fall short in so many ways, even though we do, at least, take her seriously. But our abilities to trust and include her as much as possible is limited, because we’re largely nuclear, isolated individuals. Our lack of a real social support net leaves a lot out.

When I think of sending my daughter to school, either so my wife and I can have more “adult time” to get work and get stuff done, or so our daughter can get more time around other kids, or simply to get away from needing to deal with her, I’m terrified at how fast the change might happen.

Right now, with the acceptance and love she receives from my wife and I, she’s maybe half full. Maybe a bit less, as she went through chemotherapy and was given a potentially lifelong disability as a result of spinal surgery at 1.5 years old.

But take her away from mom and dad’s acceptance, put her in a room (or even outside,) watched over by another adult as that adult tries to corral another ten kids. I know what it’s like; I was a Montessori pre-school teacher for a while. With so many same aged peers, the power struggles will quickly ensued, and, despite however well-intentioned the teachers are, a pecking order will be established. Even if (and that’s a big if) the teacher doesn’t resort to shame, the children, in their desperate situations, will. And many if not most of them will have become adept at shame even at the tender age of pre-school.

Tell her it’s going to be like this for fifteen years.

How long would it take to empty the bottle of my daughter’s soul in this way? Six months? A year? And how long until it’s filled with the fuming poison of shame, competition, needing to be “good” to be loved – by teacher, by friends, by Instagram?

How long – and I’m not just finger-pointing at school here, but at our whole cultural package – until she’s a Molotov cocktail? Because without an engendering community to grow up in, to get to know herself in, to get to know healthy relationship within, how could she ever become anything else? Long before she throws her graduation hat in the air, she’ll have learned – with the help of her school, her peers, experts, and the media – that to be a good participant in our zero sum society she not only has to win, but she has to learn to manage the pain. Being “good” only means that you’re good at procuring something to sooth the poison inside you. That’s the goal: functional addiction. Inner Pepto Bismol. And all the better if you can multitask and make noise about how you’re the one with the answers to other people’s and/or the world’s problems, while ignoring and medicating your own.

And despite our hand wringing about gun control, mental health, or how we’re giving our kids the “right” values, some of these Molotov cocktails run low on their Pepto Bismol. When they look around, they see everyone clamoring for the limelight, to make a statement, to be known and seen and given a place, and they think: “Better to be an anti-hero than a nobody.” But their poison and emptiness is the same as yours and mine.
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HairyRussianDude
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Re: Kids and pain

Post by HairyRussianDude »

I'm not as deep a thinker as you Blink, but I do get the guilt of "falling short" with your kids.
My wife and I work opposite hours since Covid started. I'm tired of get off work, pick up kids, stick them somewhere out of trouble while supper is made, bath time, homework, earlier bedtimes due to age... we don't get a lot of time to really hang out. Even worse, the lack of time screws them out of playdates to socialize with other kids outside of school/daycare. It sucks.

The amount of people who get shot in the US boggles my mind overall. You guys are near daily on mass shootings:
https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/repo ... s-shooting

We have guns, they are popular here too, I own them and love them, we have people well under the poverty line, we have people with mental health issues, we have all the same things as the US but don't have anywhere near the rate of shootings you guys do and I have no clue why that is.
How easy is it to get your license? Note section C on our application. You get your background checked hard, then once in the system your info gets ran daily for changes.
https://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/wam/media/45 ... ae9252.pdf
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Re: Kids and pain

Post by tonawandares »

HRD,

What license are you referring to?
The 2nd Amendment to our Constitution (enumerated in our Bill of Rights) gives us the right to keep and bear arms.
My own State of Missouri has in its Constitution (Art I; sec 23) the inalienable right to keep and bear arms.
There are provisions in our system to change our Constitution(s) if anyone is serious about it.
But none of that has anything to do with the terms gun violence or mass shootings.
I've had firearms since I was 10 years old when my dad gave me a double-barrelled shotgun for my birthday.
To my knowledge, none of the firearms or ammunition I own, to date, have been violent. The only "mass murder" (of sorts) that I've committed is to bag my limit of squirrel, turkey, rabbit, dove, pheasant, deer, and so on.
I suspect, that as I grow old and pass down my collection to my Sons and Grandsons, the firearms will continue the time-honored tradition of NOT committing gun violence.
But I do have other firearms that I've never used for hunting. They are for the self-defense of my Family and for the Missouri State Defense Force. https://www.missourimilitia.com/
We have here in Missouri what is referred to as Constitutional Carry.
It is our State's Constitution that allows me to carry a firearm whether that be open carry or concealed carry.
There is no license or associated fee required to exercise my inalienable right.

Gun Violence and Mass Shootings have everything to do with criminal behavior.
No amount of gun bans or regulations or restrictions will ever change this dynamic.
These limitations only affect otherwise law-abiding citizens, not the criminally-minded or the mentally disturbed.
So I have no interest in discussing the alteration of those legitimate, purposeful rights in any capacity.
This discussion of banning assault rifles is really silly. There are already strong controls regarding them. It is harder for a solid citizen to be permitted to own one than it is for a criminal. (an assault rifle is one capable of burst or full auto just like the ones we use in BF) The AR-15 is no such beast and don't kid yourself, this is the weapon they want to ban.

What has happened to the moral compass of so many young men (in particular) in the US is a different story. But it begins in the heart of that young man and it all begins at home.

~ tona
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Re: Kids and pain

Post by tonawandares »

Blink,

I think I'm going to have to read your essay a few more times in order to really understand what it is that you're intending to convey.
At first read, it comes across as very dark and bleak.
I'll chew on it a bit and try to provide a reasonable response.

~ tona
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Re: Kids and pain

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tonawandares wrote: May 31st, 2022, 8:04 am No amount of gun bans or regulations or restrictions will ever change...
Well... it will "change" it, by some non-zero amount. Not "every" kid looking to obtain a gun, or "every" angry person looking to mis-use a gun without even considering the criminality of their actions, will immediately resort to some illegal method of obtaining one. Or would even know where or how to start without immediately tripping over law enforcement.

Yes, someone who already engages in criminal behavior for other reasons and/or knows exactly where to obtain these illegal sources will have no inhibition against doing it for this, too. And for some, whatever they're thinking about will be important enough for this to be the reason to track down such resources for the first time in their life, and important enough to risk trying to engage criminal behavior for the first time in their life.

But that's not everything, or everyone. The friction of some common-sense restrictions will actually give some people pause.

Referring to the application Hairy linked to, having to get "the police force in my town or my previous town" to attest to my fitness to obtain a weapon, or having my spouse or girlfriend/boyfriend either having to sign off on my application and/or be notified of my application without their signature, are things which can trigger awareness and intervention currently absent from requirements in the United States. Giving the applicant pause as to what the effect of the application is going to be for them since it's no longer being done "in secret", or at worst giving others notification of something that causes a safety concern.

I do think we all agree that there is no one answer or solution that is a panacea for the kinds of problems uniquely the United States is having. But there is a lot of disagreement that "restrictions would be useless against them." Had there been even a cursory investigation of "Well what has he been SAYING he wants to do?" required for the latest shooter, the flags were easy to spot.

But yeah, you have to immediately ask yourself, "Wait... which latest shooter?"
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Re: Kids and pain

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I am not sure which angle to go with here.....as i was not born and raised in the US, i have slowly come to terms with the American way of things being done......some if not most, are confusing to me, as the laws in Australia are far more strict, than they are over here....so it does come down to each countries system.
We have had our own 'shooting sprees' from time to time....the worst ever being in a place called Port Arthur in Tasmania ( island mass just south of Australia, for those who dont know )
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/port ... ws-n396476
It will only take a moment to read a small portion of this, to understand the impact it had on the whole country.....it took just this one tragic event for the then Government to act...where as over here, it seems to be a repeated cycle....sadly, with no end in sight.

People who dont own gun, but have intent on using one to do a mass shooting, will still get their hands on one, regardless of new laws, restrictions etc.
But in order to obtain a gun in Australia ( i am thinking back to when my old man wanted to register his colt 45, some 20 + years ago ), there was a law that required a person to have 3 affidavits from people that new you for at least 20 years......that the cops would come to your house and instruct you on what was needed to make sure the fire arm would be secure, then they would do a follow up........and then you would take classes to make sure you could operate the fire arm safely.......oh, and yes, a thorough back ground check on top of all of that.
So it wasnt impossible to get a gun.....just a lot more to go through....but i also believe that certain weapons were not permitted to be owned....unless lets say, you owned a farm or ranch etc.

Even things like a sling shot are illegal in Australia......so to most here, you are probably thinking " wtf ?.....a sling shot ?! " different culture in Australia.....different way of life......totally different laws....it doesnt mean that idiots wont try to get one any way.....that will happen regardless.
But if younger ones were brought up the correct way, then hopefully they dont cross that line of wanting something they are not supposed to have.

I have no idea if anything i said here makes a difference or not, but i cannot help but feel that some of the younger generation of today has lost touch with the real world....( tell me here, who has not seen a young person walking toward you , while their head is buried in a cell phone texting, while they walk directly toward you, not paying attention?.....i walk straight at them, with the hope they bump in to me,so i can rip them a new one....my point being : no sense of awareness, no consideration, not in touch with reality, total disregard for others......lost touch )
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Re: Kids and pain

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Demonic wrote: May 31st, 2022, 2:56 pm.( tell me here, who has not seen a young person walking toward you , while their head is buried in a cell phone texting, while they walk directly toward you, not paying attention?.....i walk straight at them, with the hope they bump in to me,so i can rip them a new one....my point being : no sense of awareness, no consideration, not in touch with reality, total disregard for others......lost touch )
Let's not be too hard on screaming_eagle and his driving...
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Re: Kids and pain

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lol...Aussie slang for his driving skills ( in DC at least ) is either a ' Hooligan ', or ' Hoon'..... :D :D :D
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Re: Kids and pain

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Trench wrote: Well... it will "change" it, by some non-zero amount. Not "every" kid looking to obtain a gun, or "every" angry person looking to mis-use a gun without even considering the criminality of their actions, will immediately resort to some illegal method of obtaining one. Or would even know where or how to start without immediately tripping over law enforcement.
Adam Lanza simply took his Mother's AR-15, killed her, and then went about his other business of the day whether premeditated or not.
He illegally took possession of a firearm and additional bans, laws, and restrictions made zero difference.
The Uvalde shooter legally purchased his weapons. He would have had to complete two federal background checks.
Had they not been able to acquire their respective weapons, who is to know what they would have done otherwise to get them.
In either case, were gun laws deterrents?
What about the most obvious of Federal Gun Laws:
Federal Gun-Free School Zones
Federal Gun-Free School Zones Act: Originally enacted in 1990, the Gun-Free School Zones Act
(GFSZA) is a federal law that requires states to restrict firearms on school property. Under the
GFSZA, 18 U.S.C. § 922(q)(2)(A):


My point is, in every case of a mass shooting, specifically, gun laws were broken. This law created killing fields.
Trench wrote:But that's not everything or everyone. The friction of some common-sense restrictions will actually give some people pause.
One would like to believe that given the nature of mathematical odds, someone might pause due to restrictions, but honestly, that is mere speculation.
Factually, there have been several who have changed their mind, but not necessarily due to this silly phrase, sensible gun laws.
I believe one must do their research and try to understand these murderers because these are such violent homicides. Conversely, they are violent suicides at the same time...different from typical suicides in that a group is a focus rather than an individual. Take Columbine for example. Their suicides were part and parcel of their plan for homicide...their last act, if you will. Someone who is intent on suicide is hard to deter.
Trench wrote:Referring to the application Hairy linked to, having to get "the police force in my town or my previous town" to attest to my fitness to obtain a weapon, or having my spouse or girlfriend/boyfriend either having to sign off on my application and/or be notified of my application without their signature, are things which can trigger awareness and intervention currently absent from requirements in the United States. Giving the applicant pause as to what the effect of the application is going to be for them since it's no longer being done "in secret", or at worst giving others notification of something that causes a safety concern.
That is one of the most absurd pieces of policy I've ever read. But it fits quite well with the current changes in legislation Canada is enacting.
Trench wrote:I do think we all agree that there is no one answer or solution that is a panacea for the kinds of problems uniquely the United States is having. But there is a lot of disagreement that "restrictions would be useless against them." Had there been even a cursory investigation of "Well what has he been SAYING he wants to do?" required for the latest shooter, the flags were easy to spot.
The trouble I find agreeing with the statement,
But there is a lot of disagreement that "restrictions would be useless against them."
is that there is little agreement on what those restrictions should be.
The big one is an Assault Weapon ban, but that has already been proven to accomplish nothing over time. As usual, the mindset seems to be to place more and more restrictions on law-abiding citizens who commit no crimes in order to feel good about what they've done to prevent these from occurring but knowing full well, the next one is right around the bend.

It should be clear to all who have eyes to see and ears to hear that it is our Societal depravity that drives our current experiences. Lessons learned folks...you cannot legislate morality.

~ tona
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Re: Kids and pain

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Trench wrote: May 31st, 2022, 10:26 am Referring to the application Hairy linked to, having to get "the police force in my town or my previous town" to attest to my fitness to obtain a weapon,
Just a minor thing Trench, the RCMP are a national police force. I don't really know what to equate them too in the US as they serve many roles.
One of those roles is running the firearms program for the whole country.
So I live in a city with it's own municipal police force, but I still apply to the RCMP for my license and background check. The RCMP might just check with my city's police to see if I've been in a cell for a domestic or just peeing in public stumbling home.

tona,

With all due respect, the vast majority of what you said is the same knee-jerk reaction and broken record arguements as up here. Minus the amendment part. "Criminals gonna criminal", "legislation doesn't fix criminals", "majority of guns are illegally smuggled from the US"...

I say this as somebody who owns guns and loves them, including handguns, these arguements will not win the battle.

We lost the AR15 in 2020. To my knowledge, not a single mass shooting has occurred in Canadian history with the AR15. You know what has killed many people and shows up in nearly every drug bust? The SKS. Guess what is non restricted and up until recently I could just buy out of some guy's trunk at a coffee shop parking lot as long as we showed each other or licenses? So the AR15 ban here makes no sense compared to other semi automatic rifles that could have been banned.

There is a good possibility that we might get a soft ban on handguns this fall. If the bill goes through, we can't import, sell, or transfer handguns but can keep what we already have. This just means that I get to keep my handguns but once I die, they cannot be registered to anybody else and will be destroyed. Cheaper to let nearly 2 million handguns slowly go to collections than to try and buy them all back, which again is ridiculous if this is being done in the name of public safety yet they are allowing the guns to stay out there.

So I'm with you. There are flaws in some of these plans. But what cannot be denied is what Trench was getting at... the people writing up this legislation are not completely wrong.
The AR15 ban here? Yeah over the course of Canada's history theoretically probably will save a few lives.
Not importing any new handguns and requiring long gun registration? Yes it likely will save a few lives as straw purchasing is a real problem here. (Those SKSes showing up in busts very likely did not come from south of the border...)

No I do not think these laws will have a drastic impact by any means (my city in particular likes knives. I worry more about getting stabbed than shot), but it cannot be said they will have ZERO impact.

One thing I can't wrap my head around is how the conservative side can't meet the liberals mid-way. Sure, rattle your saber over keeping your guns but at the same time give the liberals some direction. Support root cause problem solving, like better funding for mental health care or pulling more people out of poverty or addictions support rather than prison sentences for possession... we now circle back to what Blink is getting at with shaping kids. Lets work on making people not want to hurt other people period.

How about telling lawmakers to back off of legal law abiding owners, but also giving them tangible goals instead of "criminals gonna criminal"?
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Re: Kids and pain

Post by BlinkofanEye »

Tona can you clarify what you mean by social depravity? Like Nas votes? ;) No, but seriously, I'm curious about your thoughts.
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Re: Kids and pain

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Demonic wrote: May 31st, 2022, 2:56 pm We have had our own 'shooting sprees' from time to time....the worst ever being in a place called Port Arthur in Tasmania ( island mass just south of Australia, for those who dont know )
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/port ... ws-n396476
It will only take a moment to read a small portion of this, to understand the impact it had on the whole country.....it took just this one tragic event for the then Government to act
I have a mint condition and unaltered WWII era Enfield revolver that I hope does not end up with the same fate as some of the rarer ones from Australia.
Australia produced a small amount of them during WWII, but the thought is that many of them were lost during various buybacks and amnesties.
Regardless of what happens here with handguns, I really hope an exception is made for guns that could be museum pieces. Even if I had to pay out of my own pocket, I hope an exception will be made to have that Enfield deactivated so it can go to my local war museum rather than just be destroyed some day.
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Re: Kids and pain

Post by tonawandares »

HairyRussianDude wrote: tona,
With all due respect, the vast majority of what you said is the same knee-jerk reaction and broken record arguements as up here. Minus the amendment part. "Criminals gonna criminal", "legislation doesn't fix criminals", "majority of guns are illegally smuggled from the US"...
"Knee-jerk?"
How can you say, on the one hand, these are broken record arguments and on the other say it's a "knee-jerk" reaction...not sure about your part of the world but that comes across as contradictory.
But the reason that they are repeated is that reality isn't changing and hasn't changed. These are still truths.
HairyRussianDude wrote:I say this as somebody who owns guns and loves them, including handguns, these arguements will not win the battle.
I'm not sure what "battle" you refer to.
If you mean the battle for our moral compass, I believe we can have serious discussions about a range of issues, but in the end, any individual makes a personal decision on how they choose to associate within society, writ large.
If you mean the battle over firearms in general, there is no battle. The 2nd Amendment is established and only a change in our Constitution can amend it. However, our Supreme Court has ruled over and over in favor of the 2nd Amendment. As I said, it shall not be infringed upon.

So, if neither of those, then you must be referring to the battle for public safety.
Even though the AR15 is highlighted when there is a mass shooting where one is used, it is not a weapon that is used in homicides with frequency.
Mass shootings are rare, though they get a lot of attention when they occur and especially since historically, you can almost expect a copy cat to emerge shortly after one occurs.
Handguns account for more firearm homicides than any other firearm.
This claim, especially by our President, that the Assault weapon ban reduced mass shootings is without substance. Recent studies (2020) concluded that there is "inconclusive evidence for the effect of assault weapon bans on mass shootings.
And when you counter that claim with the increase of "other weapons" used during those ten years, the ban's effect on mass shootings is even weaker.
Large-capacity magazines had a measurable effect more so than the so-called assault weapon itself.
I think that there is room for discussion regarding large-capacity magazines. I could see restricting mags to 10 rounds for a set period of time in order to study its effect.
HairyRussianDude wrote:So I'm with you. There are flaws in some of these plans. But what cannot be denied is what Trench was getting at... the people writing up this legislation are not completely wrong.
Who says they can't be completely wrong? Why can't, what Trench said, be denied?
Having local police, family, spouses, and friends determine whether or not a citizen can possess a firearm, which is a constitutional right, potentially opens up a pandora's box of weaponized tools to deny a US citizen due process possibly violating one's 4th amendment rights.
Many states in the US have what is called Red Flag laws or Extreme Risk Protective Orders.
They allow for the confiscation of firearms legally possessed by individuals who are accused of being an imminent danger to themselves or to others.
They are not new (The State of Connecticut enacted theirs in 1999) but I don't think many folks really know anything/much about them or have even heard of them.
While well-intentioned as it is, it calls into question the violation of a person's civil rights as well as due process.
I believe that we are moving in the right direction here but we have to be extremely careful in protecting an individual's civil rights while at the same time protecting the public at large.
Severe penalties should be levied against those who abuse this system with false reporting or act out of vengeance or malice.
HairyRussianDude wrote:One thing I can't wrap my head around is how the conservative side can't meet the liberals mid-way. Sure, rattle your saber over keeping your guns but at the same time give the liberals some direction.


I think you totally miss the mark here. Liberal's goal is to eliminate the 2nd Amendment at all costs.
But I agree that our Congress needs to address this issue for the benefit and safety of the public.
HairyRussianDude wrote:we now circle back to what Blink is getting at with shaping kids. Lets work on making people not want to hurt other people period.
You can't legislate morality.

~ tona
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Re: Kids and pain

Post by Demonic »

I am sure there are still many fire arms in Australia that never made it to the buy back program....either because they are antiques or people just didnt want to surrender them.

I am often curious as to why people need so many guns of different calibers ? why need a shotgun, semi automatic, high powered rifles and handguns ? Is it because people can own that many ? is it some kind of status ? does it give people a sense of power or authority ? I am curious....

Society is broken IMO.....so many double standards from every side.....the younger ones, as i said, are lost.....caught between whats expected of them in todays world, combined with knowing they can get away with so much more than some of us did many years ago.
but if they are not raised with clear direction and understanding of wrong doings, at a young age, then there's only one path they could end up taking.

i am not sure what the age requirement is for owning a gun ( is it 18 ?! ) but perhaps that should be increased to 25 or something.

theres no hope for this Dem owning a real 50 cal sniper rifle, as they are illegal in CA......why the hell someone would want something like that anyway is beyond me lol........do people go hunting with an AR15, or SKS ?.....whats the need for semi automatic weapons in someones house ?!
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Re: Kids and pain

Post by tonawandares »

Demonic wrote: I am often curious as to why people need so many guns of different calibers ? why need a shotgun, semi automatic, high powered rifles and handguns ? Is it because people can own that many ? is it some kind of status ? does it give people a sense of power or authority ? I am curious....
I would say that individually, any one or more of those reasons are true.
I can't speak for anyone but me, so I won't.
I also won't say how extensive my collection is but I can fill a full-sized gun safe.
Some weapons were gifts.
Some are collectibles.
Various shotguns: hunting small game, hunting larger game (black bear/deer with slugs) skeet-clay pigeon, duck-goose -pheasant-turkey, as well as the first shotgun my dad gave me and now the ones he owned.
Various Rifles: Target, big game, bigger game, self-defense, nostalgic (black powder)
Various pistols: target, tactical, self-defense, nostalgic (black powder)
Demonic wrote: i am not sure what the age requirement is for owning a gun ( is it 18 ?! ) but perhaps that should be increased to 25 or something.
This can vary from State to State.
"Owning" or "possessing" is different than purchasing. So federal law mandates 21 years old to purchase a handgun but you can possess a handgun in Missouri at 18. A minor can possess a long rifle under the age of 18 but cannot purchase on until 18. Some of these are based on Parental consent while others are not.
Personally, since I've been 10 years old, I've owned firearms of various types.

theres no hope for this Dem owning a real 50 cal sniper rifle, as they are illegal in CA......why the hell someone would want something like that anyway is beyond me lol........do people go hunting with an AR15, or SKS ?.....whats the need for semi automatic weapons in someone's house ?![/quote]

The AR-15 with .223 round (can get for .762) is the most popular rifle In the US not only used for hunting and target shooting, but for self-defense.
In spite of what liberals want you to believe they are nothing more than semi-auto rifles that have been around for over a hundred years.
They are NOT assault rifles or...dear lord..."Weapons of War."

Semi-automatic simple means one shot per trigger pull.
The advantage is that you don't have to chamber an additional round after each shot either manually or by bolt action.

Now, I believe I've participated enough in derailing Blink's thread.
I still want to get to his essay.

~ tona
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Re: Kids and pain

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Perhaps people should not be allowed to own a gun of any type until 25-30....why would a teenager need a weapon before then ?...if they go hunting with their parents, then i guess they could use a gun then, but they would be under parental supervision....i dont see any solution to the problem....you put restrictions on guns, then other weapons come in to play.

I recall during a trip back to Australia in 07-08, there was a total ban on people carrying knives of any length due to constant gang violence...that sucked for me, because i used to collect knives and fantasy style swords...but i would never dare take one with me in public, even before the ban.

Surely by now though, there is enough for parents, teachers and other adult figures in a childs life, to pick up on certain traits a child might have that could be concerning.....red flags or what ever term you want to use....but i cannot help but feel the majority of underlying issues in childs life, stems from the goings on within their own home.
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Re: Kids and pain

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Dem,

I grow tired of that word and question, "need".
Nobody "needs" anything beyond food, water, basic shelter, etc.

Like tona, I can speak only for me. But the reason I enjoy having multiple guns and calibers is a multitude of reasons and I'm just a newbie.
I like my .22s for practicing because the ammo is cheap. I like the single shot because it makes me focus, I like the bolt action because I like how it feels to work the bolt, and I like the semi auto in the winter because I touch metal less with it.
I like how my SKS feels, sounds, the recoil... it is enjoyable and comfortable for me to shoot. The surplus military ammo you can buy for it is dirt cheap too which makes it cheap to practice with.
I love how loud my Mosin is, how far it can be accurate, and the fireball it spits out with its bigass rounds. Again it is fun to work the bolt.
My handguns are just fun to shoot and I enjoy them.
I enjoy military surplus for the history behind the guns too.
I want one of everything!

You can hunt with everything I just listed, and that is a big reason caliber comes in to play. A .22 is great for small game but not so great for birds so that is where a shotgun shines but that shotgun is not as well suited for larger game at distance so a higher caliber rifle is better to take down a bear lets say... You don't use a hammer to drive nails, screws. bolts, you have multiple tools in that box.
However hunting is not the only reason to own guns. I'm not a hunter, I grew up in the city and processing an animal would probably make me throw up.
I strictly target shoot and it is the most relaxing thing I do.
When I'm outside at my range 20 minutes out of town in the middle of nowhere, I'm focused on my target, front sight, breathing... the world just goes away and the only thing on my mind is lining up that shot. Then BANG! Nope I saw the dirt poof left of the target, I'm way off. Probably moved while I was pulling the trigger. Focus some more, relax that grip and pull it in a bit more, breathe... BANG! *ping* "FUCK YEAH I HIT THE GONG!!!" Accomplishment.
I love it, it relaxes me, it has been good for my mental health through Covid.

You don't have to feel the same way and that is fine. But I nor anybody else has to defend a "need" to own guns. They are machines, tools that are enjoyed by some and are unfortunately abused by others.
Like a van that some drive into other people.
Or a vegetation clearing blade that some use to hack others with.
Or sports equipment that some use to beat others to death with.
Or non lethal animal deterrents for hikers that some spray on other people.
Or technology that gives us the glory and convenience of flight like birds that some use to murder thousands.

I think it would serve the world better to focus on societal changes so nobody wants to use tools to hurt others, instead of taking said tools away.
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Re: Kids and pain

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Dem,

From my perspective, "Why would...need" is not relevant. One doesn't have to have an answer for that question. I have a right to own a firearm for any reason, or no reason at all.
Personally, I wanted to give my sons guns to enjoy them (specifically with me), to learn gun/hunter safety, and appreciate and respect the responsibility that comes with it. I wanted them to know how to protect themselves and their family. It's that cut and dry.
I do not agree with raising the age to own a firearm to 21-25. If you're old enough to get up in the morning and gear up to hunt game...and you can safely handle a weapon, you're old enough to own one. As I said, 10 years old was when my dad made the decision for me.
I think that I could compromise and say that 21 years old is a reasonable age to purchase a firearm. But I don't necessarily agree with that either.
But if they raise the Military registration and future draft to 21-25, I would agree. If they are man or woman enough to serve, they are man and woman enough to buy a firearm.

~ tona
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Re: Kids and pain

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If they are man or woman enough to serve, they are man and woman enough to buy a firearm.
Up North here the legal drinking age is 18 or 19 depending on province and 18 for everything else.
We poke fun at you guys a little that someone can go fight a war in the Middle East, come home and buy guns and go fuck on film for money, but they can't enjoy a beer and burger after.
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Re: Kids and pain

Post by tonawandares »

So Blink...

Are you attempting to pull the curtain back on the command of God to "Be fruitful and multiple?"

My wife has been a preschool teacher (exclusively 3-year-olds) for over 25 years.
We've discussed how shame plays a significant role in cutting the child's future path.
It's a dirty business, we both agree, and quite the challenge to thoughtfully employ other methods to morally, tenderly and creatively shape these young ones.
My wife's goal each year, with each individual child, is to build skill and dexterity in their hearts and minds in relating to their little classmates, mommy and daddy... To love others even when you don't like what they have said or done...to think good things about those around them...to touch them when they are sad or unhappy...to give them space when they are unruly...to look beyond their fault and see their need. My wife is an amazingly skilled woman..(it was too late for me, obviously though she does speak to me a lot as if I'm 3)
Most of these children, she has had the pleasure of seeing years down the road and it is so rewarding.

I liked your essay.

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Re: Kids and pain

Post by tonawandares »

HairyRussianDude wrote: June 1st, 2022, 7:23 pm
If they are man or woman enough to serve, they are man and woman enough to buy a firearm.
Up North here the legal drinking age is 18 or 19 depending on province and 18 for everything else.
We poke fun at you guys a little that someone can go fight a war in the Middle East, come home and buy guns and go fuck on film for money, but they can't enjoy a beer and burger after.
agreed.

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Re: Kids and pain

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so much for asking a general question to try and understand something that is not common where i come from....lol...fuck me...i will refrain from asking such questions in the future :31: :31: :31:
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Re: Kids and pain

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I'm sorry dem...

Please re-ask your question and I will do my best to provide a decent response.
Maybe I read over your question?

sorry bud,

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Re: Kids and pain

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It wasnt as much your response Tona as it was HDR.......my question was not meant to be an intrusive one....where by i was invading anyone's right to have so many guns.......i am not one of those who insists a person explain their life story, or defend their actions to justify anything...it is nothing more than out of curiosity.....which i thought i had explained that in my original post.......a simple " its a hobby of mine" is all i would have needed to understand where you both are coming from......i am sure if i listed all of my music gear i used to own, you would ask me " why do you need so much stuff ?"....same principle....i have 1 gun......to me its more than enough, and i honestly regret having to buy the dam thing....it was either protect my family from crackhead ex cons living across the road from us, or coming home to something no one wants to see....again, my question was not meant to be intrusive....curious is all......
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Re: Kids and pain

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Call me thorough.

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