wake unbalanced?

[Demonic]

i couldnt help but notice yesterday on wake, how uneven it seems now....it might be just me, although a few others kinda have the same opinion as i do.

i know its been modded to try and even things up, but for which side ?!

adding anti aircraft vehicles that dont even move doesnt give red much help, as far as im concerned...it only prelongs the death of the red team.

once blue has a foothold on 1 or 2 flags, its more or less game over.
the overwhelming fire power blue has, compared to the red team makes it a non enjoyable map.


i have played on both sides, so i have seen it from both perspectives.

red will just basically get backed into a corner, because they dont have enough to counter the air power blue has.

i might be the only one on this forum who feels this way, which is ok

but this was one map i used to enjoy playing on regardless of the team.... not any more.

[Iron59]

I agree. Blue has a definite advantage. If I play on red, it's to enjoy the heat of the moment and not because I have any hope that my team will win.

I think it's always been somewhat biased toward blue since they have an uncap and red doesn't. You take and hold the airfield and it's over. A couple days ago I was on blue and we won within about 5 minutes.

[Target(+)]

Yeh a very unbalanced map, blue should have a starting advantage but once they have a foot hold of any outpost they have 2x tomcats 2x harriers 2x atk choppers and a destroyer to apply the pressure with. its a 90% of the time win for blue. On the original 1942 map red is atking and only has 2 planes, i dnt know why the attacking team was given so much power?

[gat]

it is 1 of the few that blue has the best chance to win. most other maps are red oriented advantage. IE: tobruk has the uncap for red. if you think it threw from a stratic point of view opposition is favored on most every map in the battlefield series. if you pay attention you will see very quickly the most exp. players will take advantage of this.

however, if you want to test yourself and learn new tactics. try playing on the side with the dissadvantage. you will definitly die more!! as for balance it comes down to the players themselves, its up to them.

in my days as a pilot, i know who the top guns are, so to speak, i will gladly go to the opposing team, to try to keep things balanced.

then you have those tank pro's and we know who they are! if they stack one side on eastings, well were f#$%ed so to speak. but this kind of balance is not something done by modding, and you cant mod any map to defeat it.

there are days when i just want to give some ole fashioned beat down, so i chose sides i know i can take advantage of.
then there are days i just want to have some fun.

[Target(+)]

however, if you want to test yourself and learn new tactics. try playing on the side with the dissadvantage. you will definitly die more!! as for balance it comes down to the players themselves, its up to them.

Very true!

[Nightstalker]

I couldnt agree more gat .... I am a HUGE fan of teamwork instead of one guy worrying about his KDR ... And i dont want you to thing that I dont understand that some maps are more suited to one side or the other BUT with the right gameplay by the players on your team .. .Any map can be won.

For instance ... Omaha .. you run the hill in singles you are going to die. You go up with a group and you have more of a chance because the guy laying down with the pk or the technical cant pick you all of at once and more likely than not one of you are going to take him out before you all die.
Or you get guys that do nothing but want to snipe .. I like to snipe but if we have 5 snipers on the beach already I am gonna help run the hills ... More often then not I end up being a deathmagnet but that allows you good players not to get shot LOLOLOLOL

[Demonic]

well, i was just throwing my opinion out there...like i said, some wont agree with me....but i am only playing this game for fun, not to get some old fashion beat down on anyone.............or to choose a side that will give me an upper hand in anyway.

maybe thats why no maps have unlimited 50 cals....coz then i would be taking peoples fun away

[Nightstalker]

Nobody is mad at you demonic ... Hell I was just saying that it seems to me more of the team itself than the map.

Kinda like when SOS is in a tank .. Well your F'd .. LOL .. hell the other day I am sitting still on Easting in a T72 and here comes an Abrams ... I shart shooting ... Notice i didnt say hitting him. .. SOS while on the move hitting the hills and holes in the map blast a few shots and BOOOOOM no freaking Abrams .. WTF!!!!!!!!!!!! ... I suck ... So from now on .. dont listen to what I have to say your right I am wrong. WAKE is the most unbalanced map ever


OK rant over

[Demonic]

lolol, i was just sayin what i felt is all, after playin on wake for the first time in awhiles.....it was just my point of view, nuttin more
i know we all have our fav maps and a prefered side for certain maps...considerin blue would often win on wake before any changes were made, it just seems like overkill now.

i still wouldnt mind seein just one map with multiple 50 cals spawned.....just one map !!!!!

[Nightstalker]

If they do that I want to be on blue because I have a good time sniping too.

I dont know if I am anywhere near as good as that Dirty Hairy guy ... He seems to get a TON!!!!!!!! of one shot kills WITHOUT the 50 ????

[Iron59]

Kinda like when SOS is in a tank .. Well your F'd .. LOL ...

Kinda like when SOS is in ANYTHING. The dude has like the highest score across all servers

[toolman]

OK here is my suggestion because I'm not a fan of taking away from blue on wake..

the ship should go. it is almost impossible to destroy, RPG's do nothing (unlike battleships) and the hind never gets off ground, and frog has enough to do. Also VERY common for ship to come around and just shell red airfield taking out both planes.

Give red a battleship and let carrier be open season if your gonna keep all the air power to blue and give them the water too.

It's not that blue has more planes so much as that red can''t get them off ground. Good pilots will sway towards blue on the map usually anyway, tomcat is cool and plenty planes to go around..I understand..but this leads to those good pilots keeping red planes from ever taking off.

Personally I would start with all flags grey on land, give red and blue each a carrier and a battleship and let it be a free for all.. similar to midway. I like boats.

[Lethal]

Wake, torbuk, iwo jimo, need i go on these maps are the inevitable defeat for the team without an uncap. If we added uncaps the maps would be alittle more balanced, certain players would disagree with this but i always enjoy an evenly balanced map even when my teams getting ran through like a striper at a bachelor party.

[Demonic]

some kewl ideas of what might work.....all i know is, the maps that have even amounts of vehicles per side, often end up being closer and intense in battle, than some of these that lethal mentioned.

i agree with iwo being another example...infact just yesterday on it, RP was suggesting the tomcat be taken out.

tools idea of converting wake to be like midway sounds good to me.

changing maps to focus on more teamwork ethics are good in concept.....but we all know that not everyone who plays this game understands what teamwork is...their KDR is more important.
could i suggest that iwo and wake be returned to how they used to be for just 1 week (maybe 2) just to see exactly where the differences are ?

i will add another point...as already mentioned, some prefer certain sides on a particular map...well, countless times i have seen people switching from red to blue at the start of wake / iwo, throwing the balance off right at the start and causing the game to end quicker than it should...so you can throw 'teamwork' from the red team right out the freakin window, all coz of some selfish people.

[Swanny-CG]

could i suggest that iwo and wake be returned to how they used to be for just 1 week (maybe 2) just to see exactly where the differences are ?

Right now I think the only thing done on Iwo and Wake is the mouted AA (which is WORTHLESS) have been replaced with static AA tanks (which are much more effective). Since the defending team is the one with few planes, can you tell me how giving them BETTER AA capabailites somehow makes it easier for the attacking team?

I could easily be forgetting something but I don't think we changed any vehicles except for giving red two Pantsyrs on Wake at the airfield (AGAIN, giving them better AA protection ... see my point above).

I'm down for potential changes that balance stuff out - that's the whole point of any mod we decide to add is an *attempt* to better balance things. They don't always work, like the sub spawn in Tobruk. We take them out if they fail. I do, however, think the assertion that the changes made on these maps somehow make it EASIER for the attacking team is incorrect.

Convince me.

[Demonic]

its all good...i was voicing an opinion...if the powers that be feel these maps in question are balanced, then no probs here....

i am curious though, to who here ONLY plays blue on iwo and wake ......

[Payne N. Daiz]

Right now I think the only thing done on Iwo and Wake is the mouted AA (which is WORTHLESS) have been replaced with static AA tanks (which are much more effective). Since the defending team is the one with few planes, can you tell me how giving them BETTER AA capabailites somehow makes it easier for the attacking team?

I could easily be forgetting something but I don't think we changed any vehicles except for giving red two Pantsyrs on Wake at the airfield (AGAIN, giving them better AA protection ... see my point above).

And the allied spawn chopper was removed from both maps...which helps.

I like the idea of making the carrier a target. That would even things up a bit.

[WaffleFries]

I like the idea of making the carrier a target. That would even things up a bit.

Red planes should be allowed to camp planes taking off from the carrier. It has better defenses than the airfield with those phalanx and AA missiles. These are 2 maps that I think the carriers should be considered fair game.

[gat]

i agree both maps with carriers should be fair game. no flags for anyone to start. FIght for it )

[Rally Monkey]

i agree both maps with carriers should be fair game. no flags for anyone to start. FIght for it )

FTW

[junior]

I could easily be forgetting something but I don't think we changed any vehicles except for giving red two Pantsyrs on Wake at the airfield (AGAIN, giving them better AA protection ... see my point above).

I'm down for potential changes that balance stuff out - that's the whole point of any mod we decide to add is an *attempt* to better balance things. They don't always work, like the sub spawn in Tobruk. We take them out if they fail. I do, however, think the assertion that the changes made on these maps somehow make it EASIER for the attacking team is incorrect.

Convince me.

Wake is not an easy map for blue at all. I think people are confusing it with Iwo Jima which is the mother of all camp maps and that one really needs to be HEAVILY tweaked in red favor or removed out of rotation (easiest way to balance that would be to increase plane spawn times).

But back to Wake... Red team can easily defend it if they know what to do. The only real advantage is blue teams Tomahawks. Thats truly the only thing Red has no way of countering. So, as much as I love using them, I'd suggest removing the extra allied ship or replacing it with something like that "Prince ship" from Iwo Jima and see how it goes. If the map gets 100% red win after that, then put it back but if it evens out, problem solved.

[Demonic]

i like the sound of the iwo idea AIDS bro......it is a small map, other than the mass of water around the island, so most of the action should be focused on the land anyways...so yeah, id be down for having all out war on the island , with no planes , ships and helos getting involved.

but for wake,there is no confusion on my part....i find it funny how no one answered my simple question, of who only plays blue on iwo and wake....i have no prefered team for any of the maps, so i play what ever side i begin with.....i still like the idea of it being changed so both teams have to fight for it, that all flags are greyed at the start...give red the same/similar boats, airpower and see how it turns out.

but not all maps that have 1 team with an uncap only, end up being one sided........as ive already mentioned, the best battles are to me, the ones where both teams have the same amount of vehicles each........

[gat]

i play where im put 90% of the time, bocage day 2. i prefer blue for the apachee, but i play red when it puts me there and hope for the apachee. iwa is tough map for red, air defense is the issue for sure. effective shilka players can do damge, but its needle in a hay stack when it comes to air vs air support. 4 blue vs 2 red, open season on red runway.

everyone know keep red air down, take red airfield its almost an assured victory. stinger's are effective but u have to lead "leed" the f14 and harrier as thier in game physics have them moving faster then migs,15,16 and the rest. nearly twice the lead. but the rpg is the best for both, they wont fly away smoking ) boom !.

[Uranus Reamerz]

every map has its "issues" Its not a chess game ... even in chess one could argue that black needs an extra AA gun cuz they move 2nd!
Bigger issues than maps are experience and team work which we know when you swim in the common pool there isnt much.
I know some o you guyz get on me for playin red ... well besides the 72 ... Its jus easy for these 56 year ol eyes to kill blue and not have to think ... anyway, when those not so choice red maps come around I do out of obligation provide my bot for score keeping. The only real issue I seen on the 2 maps in question is the start:
I seen (an experienced blue player/admin does it)) and a buddy jump in a T Cat and the 2 bail into Iwo BMPs ( on a regular basis if that admin is in game and that map is up I jus go make me some lunch) before red inf can initially spawn and get down the hill ... game over! That needs to be stopped ... as long as red manages the Air Fields on those maps there is a chance and at least fun to be had ... once corralled into a corner the maps .. like most become stat time.

[LF55]

every map has its "issues" Its not a chess game ... even in chess one could argue that black needs an extra AA gun cuz they move 2nd!
Bigger issues than maps are experience and team work which we know when you swim in the common pool there isnt much.
I know some o you guyz get on me for playin red ... well besides the 72 ... Its jus easy for these 56 year ol eyes to kill blue and not have to think ... anyway, when those not so choice red maps come around I do out of obligation provide my bot for score keeping. The only real issue I seen on the 2 maps in question is the start:
I seen (an experienced blue player/admin does it)) and a buddy jump in a T Cat and the 2 bail into Iwo BMPs ( on a regular basis if that admin is in game and that map is up I jus go make me some lunch) before red inf can initially spawn and get down the hill ... game over! That needs to be stopped ... as long as red manages the Air Fields on those maps there is a chance and at least fun to be had ... once corralled into a corner the maps .. like most become stat time.

Hmm, must be something with us old guys and our bad vision that we see the same thing.